the long lost birth certificate

[sugar land dave]

This is getting rather wearisome. The man is the POTUS and to paraphrase Omar, the tentmaker:

" The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it."

Omar Khayyam also wrote:

With them the Seed of Wisdom did I sow,
And with my own hand labour'd it to grow:
And this was all the Harvest that I reap'd--
"I came like Water and like Wind I go."

Man dies. On the right or on the left, equally so in finality. Perhaps you can extrapolate great truths from that. Perhaps you can ignore it. In the end though, finality.

Given that, can I have some of that popcorn?

[The Mad Moderate]

THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE SHOULD NOT AND HAS NOT BEEN AND ISSUE FOR ANY OTHER PRESIDENT I DO NOT REMEMBER PEOPLE DEMANDING GEORGE BUSH RELESE HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE I DID NOT "PLAY THE RACE CARD" I SIMPLY STATED THAT IF THIS IS YOUR MAIN ISSUE WITH THE PRESIDENT IS HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE ITS EITHER RACE OR IDIOCY TAKE YOUR PICK.

Ummmm - no. I think people are simply insisting that the employee (the President of the US, who is hired by the electorate) provide his/her credentials before being officially given the job. Every time I apply for a job, I must provide all requested materials (proof of citizenship, proof of education, proof of qualifications for the job, etc.). Saying that "it's not fair" is missing the entire point of qualifying for any position.

In particular, that he will not provide the required documentation is a sign of total disrespect for the laws of this country, as if he were somehow above all that. It does not matter anymore, since he was instated without his qualifications being ensured (sorta like getting into college without your SAT score ever being looked at). However, this lack of respect for the law (as if it did not apply to him, and is an insult) stinks to high heaven.

Can anyone here get away with doing something like this?

The "Certificate of live birth" he released in 2008 is enough to get a passport, what more proof did you need, and as to his educational records there is not law or amendment that says a President needs to be smart. I think we have proved that with our past few Presidents.

I repeat and rephrase the question: Could anyone here hold a job showing the disrespect for the hiring authority that he has? Just as I have in the past, were I in his position, I would have gladly offered any proof required that I was qualified for the job. Contrary to your previous post, it is not racist (I have proven my lack of blame in that respect throughout my life, so please don't insult me with that again), but a frustration with the demonstrated arrogance of someone who we must be able to trust with the (written) duty to protect the very existence of our society.

He did turn over the proof required, TWO YEARS AGO! When he released the "short form" birth certificate that is more than enough to get a passport. I WILL SAY AGAING HE RELEASED PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP TWO YEARS AGO. Why was it still an issue this long Why was this an issue and why does it continue to be an issue, there are still many saying that they don't think he was born here. The only constitutional requirements to be President is one be at lest 35, and be born here. The form he released two years ago should of been plenty. I will not back off my earlier accretion that anyone still making an issue of this either holds some level of resentment because the President is black or they are a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist. I understand that people wanted to be sure he was eligible, but the question was settled two and a half years ago.

[Hoi Polloi]

He did turn over the proof required, TWO YEARS AGO! When he released the "short form" birth certificate that is more than enough to get a passport. I WILL SAY AGAING HE RELEASED PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP TWO YEARS AGO. Why was it still an issue this long Why was this an issue and why does it continue to be an issue, there are still many saying that they don't think he was born here. The only constitutional requirements to be President is one be at lest 35, and be born here. The form he released two years ago should of been plenty. I will not back off my earlier accretion that anyone still making an issue of this either holds some level of resentment because the President is black or they are a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist. I understand that people wanted to be sure he was eligible, but the question was settled two and a half years ago.

I'm hearing you say, "I refuse to attribute any motive other than racism to a white man who has a problem with a black man. I choose to ignore any black men or other minorities who have the same problem and attribute indoctrinated self-hate by white racists as their only possible motive. I refuse to address any points raised by those with the issue or to assess their long-stated motives because they counter my foregone conclusion that their only motivation can be racism. I refuse to look past skin color to address the topics."

That's about the most racist point of view I think I've encountered in a long while! Black men are nothing more than their skin color to you? They can't be taken as respectable men whose positions people can disagree with (or form conspiracy theories around) like white men or women because their skin color is all you can see? There's obviously nothing to discuss as you've made it clear your position on the topic of why the birth certificate is an issue for a significant part of our country will not be changed by facts. I won't be following this thread any longer.

[PappaGun]

I will not back off my earlier accretion that anyone still making an issue of this either holds some level of resentment because the President is black or they are a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist.

No.

There are many reasons one could continue to make an issue.
The two choices you offer are not the only two because you see them as the only two.
Politics is a dirty business.
If by continuing to press any issue, including one that may appear to be settled, you can get the other to side to commit
a mis-step, you benefit.
It is a calculated power play.
As soon as the polls show the risk out weighs the benefit, it will go away.
BO released the certificate in the first place because it became more risky to not release it.
I think it's fun to watch the President get annoyed at this issue.
It has nothing to do with race for me.

BTW What does accretion have to do with this?

[VMI77]

THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE SHOULD NOT AND HAS NOT BEEN AND ISSUE FOR ANY OTHER PRESIDENT I DO NOT REMEMBER PEOPLE DEMANDING GEORGE BUSH RELESE HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE I DID NOT "PLAY THE RACE CARD" I SIMPLY STATED THAT IF THIS IS YOUR MAIN ISSUE WITH THE PRESIDENT IS HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE ITS EITHER RACE OR IDIOCY TAKE YOUR PICK.

Ummmm - no. I think people are simply insisting that the employee (the President of the US, who is hired by the electorate) provide his/her credentials before being officially given the job. Every time I apply for a job, I must provide all requested materials (proof of citizenship, proof of education, proof of qualifications for the job, etc.). Saying that "it's not fair" is missing the entire point of qualifying for any position.

In particular, that he will not provide the required documentation is a sign of total disrespect for the laws of this country, as if he were somehow above all that. It does not matter anymore, since he was instated without his qualifications being ensured (sorta like getting into college without your SAT score ever being looked at). However, this lack of respect for the law (as if it did not apply to him, and is an insult) stinks to high heaven.

Can anyone here get away with doing something like this?

The "Certificate of live birth" he released in 2008 is enough to get a passport, what more proof did you need, and as to his educational records there is not law or amendment that says a President needs to be smart. I think we have proved that with our past few Presidents.

I repeat and rephrase the question: Could anyone here hold a job showing the disrespect for the hiring authority that he has? Just as I have in the past, were I in his position, I would have gladly offered any proof required that I was qualified for the job. Contrary to your previous post, it is not racist (I have proven my lack of blame in that respect throughout my life, so please don't insult me with that again), but a frustration with the demonstrated arrogance of someone who we must be able to trust with the (written) duty to protect the very existence of our society.

He did turn over the proof required, TWO YEARS AGO! When he released the "short form" birth certificate that is more than enough to get a passport. I WILL SAY AGAING HE RELEASED PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP TWO YEARS AGO. Why was it still an issue this long Why was this an issue and why does it continue to be an issue, there are still many saying that they don't think he was born here. The only constitutional requirements to be President is one be at lest 35, and be born here. The form he released two years ago should of been plenty. I will not back off my earlier accretion that anyone still making an issue of this either holds some level of resentment because the President is black or they are a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist. I understand that people wanted to be sure he was eligible, but the question was settled two and a half years ago.

At this point none of what you're arguing here is the issue. I never took any interest in the birth certificate question for the very reason we see playing out right now --that there is no way that releasing a birth certificate could ever prove anything because it's not possible to prove something like this isn't faked (you can only potentially prove that it is faked).

That said, what the White House released doesn't pass the smell test, and it seems to me there are only two ways to explain it: 1) it is legitimate but was scanned, assembled, presented, in such a way that produces questionable anomalies; or 2) it's not legitimate and the anomalies are a by product of manipulation. In the case of #2 it is still possible that the certificate represents an essential truth --that he was born in Hawaii-- but was enhanced or manipulated in some way to disguise or to enhance something that might otherwise have seemed questionable. You can see one convincing analysis of this here: http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/1089.html

The question then is why they would release the document like this? You can dismiss #1 as incompetence, but I find that a little hard to buy given the attention that has been addressed to the matter, and the resources available to the White House. No matter what underlying reason for #2, if it is the explanation then the White House has been dishonest. I don't know what the answer is. I'm inclined to make the more benign choice but either choice raises questions about the behavior of this administration.

[PappaGun]

Tony Katz has coined a new term for those who blame all criticism of the President on race.

"Racers"

[The Mad Moderate]

Come on folks I said if the birth certificate/ eligibly issues is an issue for you its because you're an idiot or racist. I stand by that. I said earlier there are many good and valid reason to criticize this President and this is not one of the. if you want to call him out on his economic policy or foreign policy I would be inclined to agree. I did not suggest any criticism of the president is race related, just on this particular issue I think it plays a large role. Name one President in the past 100 years who has had to deal with something like this for 2 1/2 years after it was legally settled.

[USA1]

IBTL

[sugar land dave]

IBTL

[C-dub]

After hearing several folks' opinion here that it is fake I'm wondering why I haven't heard anything on the news. Surely, others are also investigating its authenticity. Have I missed the stories about this?

[VMI77]

After hearing several folks' opinion here that it is fake I'm wondering why I haven't heard anything on the news. Surely, others are also investigating its authenticity. Have I missed the stories about this?

I think "fake" is a loaded word, and perhaps inaccurate. For example, say it is essentially correct, in the sense that it accurately states BO was born in Hawaii, but for some reason, a part of it, like the reference number, has been altered --does that make it a "fake?" From what I've seen there are credible claims that it has been manipulated, but that doesn't necessarily make it a fake or a forgery --though it does raise questions about the presentation.

[The Mad Moderate]

After hearing several folks' opinion here that it is fake I'm wondering why I haven't heard anything on the news. Surely, others are also investigating its authenticity. Have I missed the stories about this?

Yes. On Infowars.com and the national inquirer have great articles about it,and while you're at Infowars you can learn everything you wanted to know about the 9/11 "conspiracy".

[baldeagle]

Come on folks I said if the birth certificate/ eligibly issues is an issue for you its because you're an idiot or racist. I stand by that. I said earlier there are many good and valid reason to criticize this President and this is not one of the. if you want to call him out on his economic policy or foreign policy I would be inclined to agree. I did not suggest any criticism of the president is race related, just on this particular issue I think it plays a large role. Name one President in the past 100 years who has had to deal with something like this for 2 1/2 years after it was legally settled.

Grover Cleveland.

Next question.

[The Mad Moderate]

Come on folks I said if the birth certificate/ eligibly issues is an issue for you its because you're an idiot or racist. I stand by that. I said earlier there are many good and valid reason to criticize this President and this is not one of the. if you want to call him out on his economic policy or foreign policy I would be inclined to agree. I did not suggest any criticism of the president is race related, just on this particular issue I think it plays a large role. Name one President in the past 100 years who has had to deal with something like this for 2 1/2 years after it was legally settled.

Grover Cleveland.

Next question.

ok now I'm just being dramatic. Yes I see that another President has dealt with this but as I said a few times above it should of been settled in '08 when he released his certificate of live birth.

[baldeagle]

Come on folks I said if the birth certificate/ eligibly issues is an issue for you its because you're an idiot or racist. I stand by that. I said earlier there are many good and valid reason to criticize this President and this is not one of the. if you want to call him out on his economic policy or foreign policy I would be inclined to agree. I did not suggest any criticism of the president is race related, just on this particular issue I think it plays a large role. Name one President in the past 100 years who has had to deal with something like this for 2 1/2 years after it was legally settled.

You're misrepresenting the issue. It has never been legally settled (meaning in a court of law.) It may have been settled in your mind, but it obviously hasn't been settled in others'. And to attribute that to racism is the worst kind of racism. You really should be ashamed of yourself for repeatedly making that statement and insisting it's one of the only two possibilities.

Some simple examples will suffice to disprove your allegation.

Some people believe (I believe rightly) that Obama is a marxist. Some of those that believe this are desperate to find any issue they can use to discredit him. It wouldn't matter if his skin was green. They would still push the birth certificate issue, because they honestly believe that's a way to defeat him politically. Remember there were people on the left who did the exact same thing to George Bush regarding the 9/11 conspiracy issue. Yet you would never accuse those people of racism simply because Bush is white, yet that's the worst form of racism there is - to assume simply based on the color of man's skin what the motives of his opponents might be.

Some people push the birth certificate issue because they hate Democrats and will believe anything bad said about them. Obama is a Democrat, so he qualifies for their hatred list. It has absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin.

You claim the proof was provided (you claim "legally settled") two and a half years ago. Bush supporters claimed the exact same thing about the National Guard records. Yet that didn't stop his opponents from trying to use the issue against him. They too insisted that he had lied, that he hadn't released the official documents, that he was covering up something dark and sinister. That you can't see the parallels in those two clearly political issues says a great deal about your inability to look at issues dispassionately and with an open mind.

If you recall the coverage of the 2008 election, the media speculated openly about whether white voters could find it within themselves to vote for a black man. They actually were shocked when white independents and some conservatives voted for Obama. I found that speculation rather amusing. George Bush had more black people in important positions of authority than Bill Clinton did. Yet the media simply believe that conservatives cannot find it within themselves to treat black people as humans. Personally I would vote for Herman Cain in a heartbeat. Not because he's black (because I don't care about that) but because he "gets it".

Your distorted view of racism is a product of hanging out in places like Huffington Post where that sort of thing is believed and spouted as fact without the slightest bit of supporting evidence.