Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

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2up1down
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#16

Post by 2up1down »

Keith B wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Judge Stefany Miley set the date for the jury trial for April 2, 2012, in Clark County District Court. Murry, a 21-year-old former U.S. Army police officer, is being held without bail in the Clark County Detention Center
So much for a speedy trial.
The trial should be speedy, just a long wait in jail for her to get to the speedy part. :evil2:
'
I just wish that My "Brothers and Sisters in the MP Corps" were in charge of her care.
She would be very well taken care of. "Of the Troops, For the Troops". The Sinners are left for God.
Become a Student of the Law we live under and proficient in the protection of yourself: so you may protect your Family, State and way of Live. Awareness is your first defense, avoidance your first tactic. If engagement is forced, Stop when the threat is gone.
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Texas Dan Mosby
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#17

Post by Texas Dan Mosby »

2up1down wrote:
Keith B wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Judge Stefany Miley set the date for the jury trial for April 2, 2012, in Clark County District Court. Murry, a 21-year-old former U.S. Army police officer, is being held without bail in the Clark County Detention Center
So much for a speedy trial.
The trial should be speedy, just a long wait in jail for her to get to the speedy part. :evil2:
'
I just wish that My "Brothers and Sisters in the MP Corps" were in charge of her care.
She would be very well taken care of. "Of the Troops, For the Troops". The Sinners are left for God.
Wouldn't surprise me if she was one of the many "outstanding" individuals allowed to enter service with one or more "moral waivers" that some idiot approved a few years back.
88 day wait for the state to approve my constitutional right to bear arms...
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#18

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[quote="Texas Dan Mosby"

Wouldn't surprise me if she was one of the many "outstanding" individuals allowed to enter service with one or more "moral waivers" that some idiot approved a few years back.[/quote]

It's a sad statement for society when the character of a person must be ignored to fill the ranks.
Become a Student of the Law we live under and proficient in the protection of yourself: so you may protect your Family, State and way of Live. Awareness is your first defense, avoidance your first tactic. If engagement is forced, Stop when the threat is gone.
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#19

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Through most of the 20th century judges would give young men who had gotten crosswise with the law the option of enlisting in the military or going to jail. It was only with the all-volunteer forces that the military could establish higher standards.

- Jim
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#20

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seamusTX wrote:Through most of the 20th century judges would give young men who had gotten crosswise with the law the option of enlisting in the military or going to jail. It was only with the all-volunteer forces that the military could establish higher standards.

- Jim
This is true.

I remember Parker's Midway Drug Store, the hangout of my youth (circa 1956) in Harrisburg, IL, was broken into by a jerk who was a couple years ahead of me in HS. Sam Parker, a WWII marine veteran of the PTO, gave the jerk the choice of jail or the marines. He chose the marines...

There used to be this thing called "accountability". Where did it go?
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#21

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Oldgringo wrote:
seamusTX wrote:Through most of the 20th century judges would give young men who had gotten crosswise with the law the option of enlisting in the military or going to jail. It was only with the all-volunteer forces that the military could establish higher standards.

- Jim
This is true.

I remember Parker's Midway Drug Store, the hangout of my youth (circa 1956) in Harrisburg, IL, was broken into by a jerk who was a couple years ahead of me in HS. Sam Parker, a WWII marine veteran of the PTO, gave the jerk the choice of jail or the marines. He chose the marines...

There used to be this thing called "accountability". Where did it go?

Whole different ball game now.

As you go back in time, the way discipline was handled in the military becomes less...refined, shall we say. In the era of your judge, I would suspect it would not be entirely unusual to find screw-up recruits being beaten by their sergeants on occasion to discourage their mistakes, and a thief in the barracks could easily find himself wrapped in a blanket and beaten and kicked by his fellow soldiers -- and no one would officially take notice. Sergeants ruled the earth that enlisted men walked on, and officers seldom "interfered." The "Code Red" business in A Few Good Men, where Jack Nicholson was the old school Marine, and Tom Cruise was the new, law-and-order-by-the-book idealistic but inexperienced (in actual military matters) lawyer was not an entirely fanciful rendition of the collision of the "older way" and the "newer way."

Soldiering itself was in many ways simpler and required more in the way of physical stamina and sheer mental toughness and perhaps rather less in the way of advanced technical skills, working with friendly and not-so-friendly allies, diplomatic skills, etc. We used to bomb entire cities flat or burn them to the ground; I remember reading military histories where when the the American Army rolled into Germany, in at least some sectors they sent word ahead to he German villages that any town not displaying white surrender flags from all the buildings would simply be levelled by artillery fire.

We also wanted larger numbers of troops, and it is pretty much a law of nature that the more people you want in an organization, the more "flexible" your standards are going to be. Marching right along with this is lower pay and lesser living conditions and a bunch of other stuff.

Now we want troops that are physically tough AND possess a number of other mental attributes, and we pay more to get fewer, but better people, and we send them not only to basic and advanced military training, but all kinds of technical and academic schools. There is simply not the time or resources to waste dealing with screw ups and criminals, partly because in absolute terms there are fewer resources to do so and partly because the processes themselves are more formal and resource intensive. Goodbye blanket party, hello Article 15 or court-martial. (Not saying that "unofficial sanctions" are not occasionally administered, but much more rare.)

So when someone is identified who is going to waste everybody's time, the response is to get them out as soon as possible. And the fastet, least resource intensive way to do this is to not take them onboard in the first place. Screen out those with criminal histories and/or no high school diploma, for example.
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#22

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Going back another century or so, armies and navies took convicts out of prison and "impressed" (that is, kidnapped) idlers and neer-do-wells. Those were the days when sheer numbers could still win battles. Flogging was a standard punishment for disobedience or insubordination.

The Duke of Wellington supposedly said, "Ours [our army] is composed of the scum of the earth - the mere scum of the earth."

BTW, "A Few Good Men," while it was a Hollywood movie based on a Broadway play, was derived from an actual event that occurred in the 1980s.

One of the defendants in the real-life case, David Cox, was later found shot to death. The murder was never solved.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-0 ... -ho-marine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#23

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seamusTX wrote:Going back another century or so, armies and navies took convicts out of prison and "impressed" (that is, kidnapped) idlers and neer-do-wells. Those were the days when sheer numbers could still win battles. Flogging was a standard punishment for disobedience or insubordination. - Jim
Getting more OT, but the novella begun around 1886 by author Herman Melville, "Billy Budd" is such a story. It was made into an excellent film in 1962.
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#24

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seamusTX wrote:Going back another century or so, ...

Yeah,I had to cut my post off a some point. ;-)

However, one more step (or leap) off-topic... a Civil War disciplinary method, namely branding deserters, may (or may not) have played a role in the creation of the original edition of the Oxford English Dictionary.

The Professor and the Madman: A Tale of Murder, Insanity, and the Making of the Oxford English Dictionary

I found this a really good read.
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#25

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ELB wrote: Screen out those with criminal histories and/or no high school diploma, for example.
Many young men with "youthful indiscretions," and/or no high school diploma have served our country with honor and distinction. I served alongside of, and led, many of them. While it's not the services' job to "turn their life around," often times it does. It gives them structure they may have been lacking, gives a sense of accomplishment, teamwork, loyalty, and mission to many who would otherwise be heading down the wrong road. I'm not saying it's a great idea not to demand the best qualifications from an all volunteer force, only that the minor criminal history and/or lack of a H.S. diploma is not always a benchmark to ensure they won't waste everyone's time. Also, there are many "higher educated" folks that couldn't find the chow line if you gave them a map! We spend a lot of time on this board encouraging people with those minor criminal histories to apply for their CHL, when eligible, and congratulate them when they get it. Are we saying to them, "You are responsible enough to be armed in Texas, but sorry, stay out of the military as you'll just be a waste of time for them?"
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#26

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My dad was one of those who served without a high school diploma, and he not only served but reached the top of the enlisted grades as a Chief Master Sergeant. But of course it was in a different time -- he first enlisted right after Pearl Harbor. Given the times, at the end of a long depression, there were a lot kids who dropped out of school to work and help their families. Not having graduated from high school was not all that unusual, and those who had attended or graduated college were a fairly small percentage of the population.

In the recent decades past, the percentage of those who attend and graduate both H.S. and college have risen considerably. Again, a new ballgame compared to even the Vietnam era. The military has used a high school diploma not so much as a mark of education but as a mark that the person who earned it has the gumption to stick to something. They came to this conclusion after reviewing the records of those who completed basic training and went on to successful enlistments. Those without H.S. diplomas were much less likely to finish basic training.

I am aware that the various services have sometimes waivered the lack of a H.S. diploma, and I am also aware of some those that were successful soldiers, etc. But they are, in fact exceptions, and supposedly they were waivered because the rest of their record justified it. And all of this applies in spades to those who have a criminal event on their record.

The comparison between the CHL program and the military is not a very apt one. The CHL concerns the regulation of what is supposed to be a right, and really has its "waivers" built into it already -- some misdemeanors OK, some not, etc. Its standards are set similarly to an entitlement -- as long as you meet the minimums, you are in. It is not (or should not be) set to award the CHL to "select few" who the state determines deserve it, but only to keep out the "select few" who have demonstrated they have not. (Certainly there are problems with how that line is drawn...) There is really no upper bound on who can have a Texas CHL - theoretically we could issue them to every non-felonious, non violent-misdemeanored person in the US who does not owe child support or taxes to Texas.

Joining the military is not a right or an entitlement, and it most certainly has an upper bound on how many it takes in. To the degee possible, it sets standards to get the best possible recruit given the circumstances -- how many people it needs and can afford, how many qualified applicants there are, what the job competition from the economy is, etc. And once they take an applicant, they like to have some expectation that the applicant will finish boot camp and at least one enlistment successfully. The lack of a H.S. diploma, or a criminal record of any kind, are not markers for this kind of applicant -- that's just the cold hard truth.

It doesn't mean someone shouldn't try, but he probably needs something else in his record that more than offsets those. Working on or finished GED? Scored really high on the armed services test? Dropped out of high school to support mom and kids (versus joined a gang and got busted). Evidence he turned his life around since he got busted for vandalism or whatever? Two average guys who apply for one slot, one with a diploma and one without, who do you pick? Yes, I know of educated fools and all that, but still, the higher probability of success is with the one who graduated. That's just the way it is.
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#27

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ELB: We'll just have to "agree to disagree."
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#28

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There is so evidence of the suspect being let into the service on a waiver or whether she had a criminal record prior to joining, what kind of discharge she had, or whether or not she was a high school graduate.
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#29

Post by Oldgringo »

The "accountability" that I recall does not pertain just to the military.

The "accountability" that I remember pertained to all age groups in all walks of life. It knew no racial, social, religious or economic boundaries. It sometimes walked hand in hand with those things my Mother referred to as "manners and respect".

Aging is a curious thing, I can remember my parent's lessons of yore but I can't remember what, if anything, I had for lunch.
:headscratch Why is that?
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Re: Las Vegas: Former MP charged with murder, robbery

#30

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Oldgringo wrote:Aging is a curious thing, I can remember my parent's lessons of yore but I can't remember what, if anything, I had for lunch.
:headscratch Why is that?
Which is more important? :cool:
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