Its not worth it.....

[The Annoyed Man]

Less than an hour ago I was in a situation where I thought I would have to take someones life.

What everyone else said... but I would add this: I don't ever want to find myself in this position. But, if I ever do find myself in a self-defense shooting in which the attacker is killed, I have the belief that I didn't take his life. He threw his life away. He just happened to throw it in my direction. If it hadn't been at me, it would have been at someone else.

I don't say this because I'm callous. It's quite the opposite. I highly value human life. It's just that I try to live my life with a minimum of conflict with other people. I avoid going places where there is an increased likelyhood of trouble. I am temperate in my behavior. I rarely consume alcohol, and I don't take drugs. I would rather walk away from a verbal encounter and let the other guy have the last say. There are a few situations where I will stand up for what I think is an important principle, and not give any ground. But for the most part, I try as much as possible to remove the chance that I could be involved in something that goes sour.

I am sure that most of us are like that. So at the end of the day, if I am backed into the situation where I have no choice but to use deadly force, then the entire onus of the situation, and all of its consequences are on the other guy's shoulders. Not mine.

I'm not saying I wouldn't be shook up, but I wouldn't feel like I had done something wrong or immoral.

[A-R]

I would NEVER take a life. I would defend my own life or someone else's. But I would never intentionally take a life.

I pray it never happens, but if I am ever forced to fire my gun at another human being it will be to stop a threat. Never to kill.

[HotLeadSolutions]

Have you considered the possibility of mounting a holster in your car for faster access to your firearm? I mounted one on the front of my seat, right between my legs that I can access with either hand. Sometimes sealtbelts lockup and make access to your weapon almost impossible.

I am glad you are ok and everything worked out.

[C-dub]

I would NEVER take a life. I would defend my own life or someone else's. But I would never intentionally take a life.

I pray it never happens, but if I am ever forced to fire my gun at another human being it will be to stop a threat. Never to kill.

And there you go. Just like TAM, in this thread, and Internetguy in another, the other person's actions determine's what our response will be.

[PappaGun]

Yeah what others said.

The only thing I would have done differently is that I would not have said "No big deal".

He obviously thought it was a big deal. And if there is such a thing as his "intelligence"

that statement belittles it.

[74novaman]

A similar situation was why I got my CHL in the first place. A person apparently believed I had cut him off. So he whips in front of me, then stops his car. Due to traffic and curbs, I had no where to go. The guy gets out, walks up to my car, actually tries to open my car door (which locks automatically when you you put the car in drive) and tells me to get out. (I'm assuming so he can beat the crap out of me). I say no, and start contemplating running him over. He gets back into his truck and drives off.

If my doors weren't locked, I really don't know how that would have ended.

Road rage can be a very serious situation. Glad you made it out okay.

[ls6tt]

I appreciate the support guys.

[zero4o3]

Glad it worked out for you. One thing I've seen lately in a few posts is people grabbing their gun in a road rage type incident. While every incident is different unless someone comes at you with a knife, tire iron or gun I don't know that if you pulled on them it would be justified.

Were you just getting your gun ready in case that was the case or would you have pulled if he had continued to get out? Just curious.

on this note,

displaying your weapon as he gets out of your truck with out a weapon probably a bad idea, the second he makes any kind of attempt to gain access to you be it the door handle or hitting the window he would see it.

that besing said I think I would have reacted similiary to the OP would wantto have my gun in my hand before he made it to the car

[gigag04]

Had he gotten out and said he was coming to assault me, he would've been proned out and arrested/detained for assault by threat until local LE could pick him up. I would just hope a well meaning person (cop, CHL, MPA) doesn't shoot an off duty LEO for proning some guy out at gun point roadside....

[HotLeadSolutions]

Had he gotten out and said he was coming to assault me, he would've been proned out and arrested/detained for assault by threat until local LE could pick him up. I would just hope a well meaning person (cop, CHL, MPA) doesn't shoot an off duty LEO for proning some guy out at gun point roadside....

That is why I think VERY CLEAR verbal commands are so very important. I think verbal commands (even if you have decided to squeeze the trigger) help to give those around you an idea of whats going on. Anything you can do (short of wearing a CHL tiara) to alert the public that you are the good guy should be done. That (getting shot by another CHL, LEO MPA) is one of my biggest concerns about having to use my weapon in public.

[AustinBoy]

Glad everything worked out ok!!

I dont want to hi-jack this thread so can someone point me to more info on "assault by threat"?
Tried to do a search but no luck.

Thanks

[HotLeadSolutions]

Glad everything worked out ok!!

I dont want to hi-jack this thread so can someone point me to more info on "assault by threat"?
Tried to do a search but no luck.

Thanks

Sec. 22.01. ASSAULT. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another, including the person's spouse; (2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse; or(3) intentionally or knowingly causes physical contact with another when the person knows or should reasonably believe that the other will regard the contact as offensive or provocative.(b) An offense under Subsection (a)(1) is a Class A misdemeanor, except that the offense is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed against:(1) a person the actor knows is a public servant while the public servant is lawfully discharging an official duty, or in retaliation or on account of an exercise of official power or performance of an official duty as a public servant;

Hope that helps.

[AustinBoy]

Thanks HotLeadSolutions but that doesnt not sound like a time when deadly force is justified.

Is deadly force justified when confronted with "Assault"?

Am I wrong?

[Beiruty]

Thanks HotLeadSolutions but that doesnt not sound like a time when deadly force is justified.

Is deadly force justified when confronted with "Assault"?

Am I wrong?

Here is the short version:
1) In road rage cases like this OP, where the no deadly weapon is displayed by the aggressor, the CHL is not justified to respond with threat of deadly force in response to a verbal assault.
2) If the aggressor, became violent and attacked, attempted to attack, tried to breach and enter the vehicle by force, the response of CHLer by threatening of deadly force or the presentation of deadly force as a force to stop the attacker is justified.
3) If the aggressor inflicts or attempt to inflict grave bodily harm, the CHLer may respond with deadly force to the stop the attack. Here with absence of the deadly means in the hand of the aggressor can open up the CHLer for charges. Disparity of force can be factor in the defense.

KISS Rules for CHLer:
1) Avoid and Deescalate incidents
2) verbal threats, Deescalate
3) Physical attack, present your firearm as a threat so (order) the aggressor would (to) stop and back off.
4) Deadly force deployed by the attacker, Deploy your deadly force to terminate the threat.

[HotLeadSolutions]

Thanks HotLeadSolutions but that doesnt not sound like a time when deadly force is justified.

Is deadly force justified when confronted with "Assault"?

Am I wrong?

Deadly force would not be warranted by vebal assualt, but remember that PC 9.04 says the production of a weapon to cause the apprehension that you will use deadly force if necessary, only counts as force...not deadly force. In this case, I feel you would be justified in producing your weapon, even though at that particular moment you would not be justified in using it.

The way it was explained to me, by a county DA is: If an officer would feel the need to draw a weapon, place yourself in his shoes...you also have the right to draw a weapon. **BUT** huge difference in drawing a weapon and pointing a weapon.

PC 9.04 -I believe- was written to give you the chance to produce your weapon BEFORE you should actually need to fire it.

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force
is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes
of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by
the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose
is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly
force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

The underlined portion was written -I believe- to keep criminals from using this section as a defense when they produce a weapon for illegal purposes. If you remove the underlined portion the section takes on a WHOLE new meaning.