Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
Where to start....well I went to Austin to make a trade with an Austinite of my Yugo Underfolder for some silver bullion. My GF lives there and suckered me into going along with her to do the "Warrior Dash" in Conroe and spend the night before camping in Sam Houston park. OK, sounds like fun. She is very outdoorsy, but also a bit absent minded so we ended up at the campsite at dark....with no headlamps....and no hatchet...among many other missing handy camping equipment she forgot. Luckily, the site we picked had a smoldering stump and decent sized log still burning. So we proceeded to get the low hanging fruit of breakable limps and such. Anyway, she find 3, 3 ft. pieces of termite riddled wood so I toss them on to keep this fire going. As luck would have it, a federal officer cruised by our whole section and on his way back decided to stop and have a word.
From what I recall, the officer asked if we started the fire and told him about the initial stump. He said that having a fire was fine but there was a burn ban in effect and that we need to keep it manageable (of course, he came up right as those logs really started to get going). I said I wasn't aware of the burn ban but we will keep it manageable. He continued telling us about some incidences of campers recently not putting out their fires and causing some small forest fires and asked about water for putting it out which, luckily, we had about 4 gallons of so I reassured him that the site would be in better condition than what we found it in. Then the question..."do y'all have any firearms with you tonight?"
Yes, sir. I have my CHL.
"Where is your firearm it located?"
Right front pocket. Is there an issue?
"Oh, no not at all. Do you mind if I see it?"
No problem. Do you want me to retrieve it?
"Yes, thats fine."
I handed him my KelTec P3AT muzzle down in the Nemesis holster. He partially withdrew it and goes "Ahhhh a KelTec! Do you have any problems with reliability with yours?" Just made me smile because I knew right then this was an officer who knows that many of us CHLers know and appreciate our guns! For about the next 10 minutes we had shop talk on hardware and told me about his P3AT being problematic so he shelved it and carries a Glock 27 as a backup now . Told him that if he cared to go through the trouble KelTec might be willing to do a "fluff and buff" but at the very least correct whatever was causing his jam. He also mentioned that the FBI was sending him to sniper school and details about that....and then I wondered why a park ranger, even federal, needs to go to sniper school??? Anyway, about midway through he asked if he could store my gun in the glove box of my GFs truck and I said sure. He informed us he was going to run our IDs and just to give him a moment so we went back to grilling hot dogs. He came back, said everything checked out (to no surprise) and then gave us the location of some other primitive camping sites and some interesting back story on them. To date, the second best LEO contact ever and he was nothing but courteous, polite, and, most importantly, treated us like people and not "suspects". He even gave us his card in case we needed any additional details and wrote down the name of the other camp site for us. He bid us a good night, and after that it was all hot dogs and smores from there!
The Warrior Dash was way more brutal than that encounter!
From what I recall, the officer asked if we started the fire and told him about the initial stump. He said that having a fire was fine but there was a burn ban in effect and that we need to keep it manageable (of course, he came up right as those logs really started to get going). I said I wasn't aware of the burn ban but we will keep it manageable. He continued telling us about some incidences of campers recently not putting out their fires and causing some small forest fires and asked about water for putting it out which, luckily, we had about 4 gallons of so I reassured him that the site would be in better condition than what we found it in. Then the question..."do y'all have any firearms with you tonight?"
Yes, sir. I have my CHL.
"Where is your firearm it located?"
Right front pocket. Is there an issue?
"Oh, no not at all. Do you mind if I see it?"
No problem. Do you want me to retrieve it?
"Yes, thats fine."
I handed him my KelTec P3AT muzzle down in the Nemesis holster. He partially withdrew it and goes "Ahhhh a KelTec! Do you have any problems with reliability with yours?" Just made me smile because I knew right then this was an officer who knows that many of us CHLers know and appreciate our guns! For about the next 10 minutes we had shop talk on hardware and told me about his P3AT being problematic so he shelved it and carries a Glock 27 as a backup now . Told him that if he cared to go through the trouble KelTec might be willing to do a "fluff and buff" but at the very least correct whatever was causing his jam. He also mentioned that the FBI was sending him to sniper school and details about that....and then I wondered why a park ranger, even federal, needs to go to sniper school??? Anyway, about midway through he asked if he could store my gun in the glove box of my GFs truck and I said sure. He informed us he was going to run our IDs and just to give him a moment so we went back to grilling hot dogs. He came back, said everything checked out (to no surprise) and then gave us the location of some other primitive camping sites and some interesting back story on them. To date, the second best LEO contact ever and he was nothing but courteous, polite, and, most importantly, treated us like people and not "suspects". He even gave us his card in case we needed any additional details and wrote down the name of the other camp site for us. He bid us a good night, and after that it was all hot dogs and smores from there!
The Warrior Dash was way more brutal than that encounter!
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Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
...The FBI is sending him through sniper school...?
That's funny, because all the HRT guys go through the marine sniper school for their initial training. Maybe the forest service is sending him to a precision rifle school hosted by the FBI?
I'd take that comment about as serious as guys at the range with airsoft quality gear that tell me they ran with "the teams" in A-Stan. Not sure why he disarmed you. I'm sure he probably had authority to do so, but hes not a TX peace officer per the ccp. Glad it worked out.
That's funny, because all the HRT guys go through the marine sniper school for their initial training. Maybe the forest service is sending him to a precision rifle school hosted by the FBI?
I'd take that comment about as serious as guys at the range with airsoft quality gear that tell me they ran with "the teams" in A-Stan. Not sure why he disarmed you. I'm sure he probably had authority to do so, but hes not a TX peace officer per the ccp. Glad it worked out.
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kalipsocs
I am well aware of Sam Houston National Forest and Sam Houston State Park, I never heard of Sam Houston National Park.
Just checked with the National Park Service. No Sam Houston National Park. You must have been in the Forest.
Not really being picky but your description of where you were piqued my curiosity.
Just checked with the National Park Service. No Sam Houston National Park. You must have been in the Forest.
Not really being picky but your description of where you were piqued my curiosity.
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.
Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he’ll just kill you.
I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.
Don’t pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he’ll just kill you.
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Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
I get irritated whenever I hear of law-abiding CHL's getting disarmed by a LEO, and I also wonder how people can describe that as a "good" encounter.kalipsocs wrote:"Oh, no not at all. Do you mind if I see it?"
. . . . . . Anyway, about midway through he asked if he could store my gun in the glove box of my GFs truck and I said sure.....
To date, the second best LEO contact ever and he was nothing but courteous, polite, and, most importantly, treated us like people and not "suspects".
-Just call me Bob . . . Texas Firearms Coalition, NRA Life member, TSRA Life member, and OFCC Patron member
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
Re: kalipsocs
Im from DFW, what do I know? Either way it was federal land...OldCurlyWolf wrote:I am well aware of Sam Houston National Forest and Sam Houston State Park, I never heard of Sam Houston National Park.
Just checked with the National Park Service. No Sam Houston National Park. You must have been in the Forest.
Not really being picky but your description of where you were piqued my curiosity.
\\Jumping Frog wrote:I get irritated whenever I hear of law-abiding CHL's getting disarmed by a LEO, and I also wonder how people can describe that as a "good" encounter.kalipsocs wrote:"Oh, no not at all. Do you mind if I see it?"
. . . . . . Anyway, about midway through he asked if he could store my gun in the glove box of my GFs truck and I said sure.....
To date, the second best LEO contact ever and he was nothing but courteous, polite, and, most importantly, treated us like people and not "suspects".
Because A.) He was professional B.) He treated us like citizens and not "suspects" C.) He was within his rights to do so. Now If he wanted to confiscate my weapon, that might be a different story...
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Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
I am glad you were satisfied with your encounter.
My personal reaction would have been to have not turned my weapon over to him for inspection. "Thank you Sir, but I would rather comply with Texas law and keep my weapon concealed".
My personal reaction would have been to have not turned my weapon over to him for inspection. "Thank you Sir, but I would rather comply with Texas law and keep my weapon concealed".
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Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
...if I were to have been that officer, and the customer complied as above and carefully handed me his weapon, my choice would have been to put it back in his hand...not secure or store it in a glove box as if I didn't trust the man to safely put it back on his person...that doesn't sit well with me...respect should go both ways...a peace officer does have the right to disarm us while he is dealing with us...but not to "dis" us...
Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
While I understand your not wanting to turn it over, if he was a Federal Officer on Federal Land, Texas laws go out the window. No matter, you still must comply with the request of the officer if they choose to disarm you.Purplehood wrote:I am glad you were satisfied with your encounter.
My personal reaction would have been to have not turned my weapon over to him for inspection. "Thank you Sir, but I would rather comply with Texas law and keep my weapon concealed".
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
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Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
My statement was predicated purely on this,Keith B wrote:While I understand your not wanting to turn it over, if he was a Federal Officer on Federal Land, Texas laws go out the window. No matter, you still must comply with the request of the officer if they choose to disarm you.Purplehood wrote:I am glad you were satisfied with your encounter.
My personal reaction would have been to have not turned my weapon over to him for inspection. "Thank you Sir, but I would rather comply with Texas law and keep my weapon concealed".
"Oh, no not at all. Do you mind if I see it?". At this point he was asking if I minded. I then would have responded as I show above as I took it to be a purely conversational request. If he then rephrased his question to become a demand from a Peace Officer, I would comply. I am quite reluctant to remove my weapon from its holster outside my residence.
Life NRA
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USMC 76-93
USAR 99-07 (Retired)
OEF 06-07
Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
OK, see your point. I don't disagree on that one.Purplehood wrote:My statement was predicated purely on this,Keith B wrote:While I understand your not wanting to turn it over, if he was a Federal Officer on Federal Land, Texas laws go out the window. No matter, you still must comply with the request of the officer if they choose to disarm you.Purplehood wrote:I am glad you were satisfied with your encounter.
My personal reaction would have been to have not turned my weapon over to him for inspection. "Thank you Sir, but I would rather comply with Texas law and keep my weapon concealed".
"Oh, no not at all. Do you mind if I see it?". At this point he was asking if I minded. I then would have responded as I show above as I took it to be a purely conversational request. If he then rephrased his question to become a demand from a Peace Officer, I would comply. I am quite reluctant to remove my weapon from its holster outside my residence.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member
Psalm 82:3-4
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Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
Perhaps he was probing... "Can I see/hold it?" will get a different response from a person who has something to hide, vs one who doesn't (yes, you already admitted having it and that should/probably did count for something)...
IMHO, not worth getting torqued about unless you had a "hinky" feeling about the LEO and felt unsafe when he asked for your gun.....
999/1000 it's an easy decision to comply. YMMV
IMHO, not worth getting torqued about unless you had a "hinky" feeling about the LEO and felt unsafe when he asked for your gun.....
999/1000 it's an easy decision to comply. YMMV
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
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Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
I would have been very agreeable to any request seeing that he already had them for a camp fire during a burn ban - not a cheap ticket.Keith B wrote:OK, see your point. I don't disagree on that one.Purplehood wrote:My statement was predicated purely on this,Keith B wrote:While I understand your not wanting to turn it over, if he was a Federal Officer on Federal Land, Texas laws go out the window. No matter, you still must comply with the request of the officer if they choose to disarm you.Purplehood wrote:I am glad you were satisfied with your encounter.
My personal reaction would have been to have not turned my weapon over to him for inspection. "Thank you Sir, but I would rather comply with Texas law and keep my weapon concealed".
"Oh, no not at all. Do you mind if I see it?". At this point he was asking if I minded. I then would have responded as I show above as I took it to be a purely conversational request. If he then rephrased his question to become a demand from a Peace Officer, I would comply. I am quite reluctant to remove my weapon from its holster outside my residence.
Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
John Wayne
NRA Lifetime member
Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
Which was honestly my concern....there were literally 30 families or so in surrounding areas with fires so I didn't worry initially about the fire (nor was I aware but i know ignorance is no excuse, blah blah blah), but since he took issue with the size of my fire my mind went to ahhh great no I will have the be taking care of a FEDERAL ticket.jmra wrote:I would have been very agreeable to any request seeing that he already had them for a camp fire during a burn ban - not a cheap ticket.Keith B wrote:OK, see your point. I don't disagree on that one.Purplehood wrote:My statement was predicated purely on this,Keith B wrote:While I understand your not wanting to turn it over, if he was a Federal Officer on Federal Land, Texas laws go out the window. No matter, you still must comply with the request of the officer if they choose to disarm you.Purplehood wrote:I am glad you were satisfied with your encounter.
My personal reaction would have been to have not turned my weapon over to him for inspection. "Thank you Sir, but I would rather comply with Texas law and keep my weapon concealed".
"Oh, no not at all. Do you mind if I see it?". At this point he was asking if I minded. I then would have responded as I show above as I took it to be a purely conversational request. If he then rephrased his question to become a demand from a Peace Officer, I would comply. I am quite reluctant to remove my weapon from its holster outside my residence.
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Re: Federal Officer visit in Sam Houson National Park
To the OP.
In my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with cooperating with an LEO like you did. My position is simply a reflection of how I look at the issue. My statement would hopefully have made it clear to the LEO how seriously I consider the ramifications and responsibilities of carrying a weapon in the first place.
I just don't consider it a light-hearted event to remove my weapon where others might see it.
In my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with cooperating with an LEO like you did. My position is simply a reflection of how I look at the issue. My statement would hopefully have made it clear to the LEO how seriously I consider the ramifications and responsibilities of carrying a weapon in the first place.
I just don't consider it a light-hearted event to remove my weapon where others might see it.
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USMC 76-93
USAR 99-07 (Retired)
OEF 06-07