Sent off the Kimber

[gigag04]

800 rds is nothing IMO for a gun. No cleaning, in the weather, maybe, but most modern handguns are capable of many thousands upon thousands of rounds.

This gun had the flawed external extractor design. No longer...it now was the standard internal extractor.

[A-R]

This gun had the flawed external extractor design. No longer...it now was the standard internal extractor.

Anyone have photos of an external extractor and an internal extractor from a Kimber or other 1911? One of these days I'm going to make the plunge and buy a 1911 of some kind to add to my collection. Want to make sure I get the "good one".

[A-R]

Is it as simple as this?

External extractor:


Internal extractor:


And for some reason Kimber external extractors tend to have problems but internal do not? Yet for other makers external is OK? I know this is one of those giant can of worms debates amongst the 1911 devotees. Trust trying to understand it a bit for my eventual 1911 purchase some day.

Thanks.

[gigag04]

Well...

Traded one set of problems for another. New slide means new snug fit. Now it's failing to go into battery consistently. About once per mag, sometimes twice. I have a pic to share but I'll get to that when I can.

Oil helped. Need to find a good spring pack for a 3" Kimber if anyone has any ideas.

Also may try AndyC's fluff and buff too.

[Excaliber]

Well...

Traded one set of problems for another. New slide means new snug fit. Now it's failing to go into battery consistently. About once per mag, sometimes twice. I have a pic to share but I'll get to that when I can.

Oil helped. Need to find a good spring pack for a 3" Kimber if anyone has any ideas.

Also may try AndyC's fluff and buff too.

The 3" Kimbers have only one spring option that I know of - a double set of captive springs on a rod. These have to be replaced every 1800 rounds, so if your gun has an unknown round count, it might be a good idea to start here.

You can also take the barrel and recoil assembly out of the slide and manually work the slide and frame together a few hundred times while you're watching TV. It doesn't take very long and can help smooth any small rub points to reduce sliding friction a bit.

You might also try using a good gun grease like Wilson Ultima Lube on the slide rails. It stays put better than oil and keeps things sliding as they should.

[E.Marquez]

Sell it to a Kimber lover,, get something you trust. That is what i did... I have only one gun that does not go bang every time I squeeze the triger... and I keep for good reason.. Make a great training tool... for working though random FTF , FTE events The difference is, mine is a $175 .40cal S&W gun.. not a $1k Kimber that makes for a great door stop, but a lousy duty or CCW gun.

Best part was,, I got every penny I had in it from the buyer... He bought a name.. I bought a gun that shoots when you pull the trigger.
Best of luck getting your Kimber to work.... Wish you the best of luck.

[Commander Cody]

I use Lubriplate and have no problems.

[The Annoyed Man]

The only 1911 I ever owned with an external extractor was a Sig GSR, and it was an unreliable piece of work. I finally traded it back in and bought my first Kimber. I've never had an extractor related problem with an internal extractor 1911.

Gee gigag04, I feel terrible that you're having such a problem with your Kimber. I've been entirely satisfied with the reliability of my Stainless Ultra; and my son has had zero problems with his Pro Raptor. If you do decide to replace your guide rod and spring set, be sure to remember that your guide rod will have to have that small hole drilled in the rod for the takedown tool.

You could also try disassembling the gun, and then mount the slide to the rails with a little bit of lapping compound in the grooves, and run the slide back and forth a hundred times or so per Excaliber's suggestion, and see if that doesn't improve the fit a little bit. Just be sure to clean it all out of there thoroughly before lubing and reassembling the gun.

[Pawpaw]

Well...

Traded one set of problems for another. New slide means new snug fit. Now it's failing to go into battery consistently. About once per mag, sometimes twice. I have a pic to share but I'll get to that when I can.

Oil helped. Need to find a good spring pack for a 3" Kimber if anyone has any ideas.

Also may try AndyC's fluff and buff too.

My Ultra CDP II did that for the first 200 - 300 rounds. It gradually got better and stopped doing it entirely by 300. I agree with the recommendations to work the slide to loosen it up. I'm still using the original spring set, but I have some spares on hand (from Kimber).

As for lubrication, I use nothing but Eezox to clean & lube my weapons.

[gigag04]

Break in is done, problem still lurking. Might be me, but I'm not sure. A few weeks back, one of the owners of my LGS tried it out, and she didnt' have any problems. We figured my thumb might have been nudging the safety up during recoil, which caused it to drag on the slide, slowing it down and making it not go back into battery.

Since then I've been riding one thumb on top and one on bottom to take that aspect out of the equation. I'm not limp wristing. It's been clean and extremely wet every time, and the problem remains. Since the round count was unknown, I have an entire new recoil spring assembly coming (swap the whole thing and be sure). I also noticed some fouling near the barrel. I believe the barrel, throat, and feed ramps need some polishing. Also the sides of the barrel might need to be opened up to assist in feeding hollow point ammunition. Bill Wiseman, the local gunsmith extrodainaire, is out of town for a week and a half, but I'm meeting with him when he gets back. Until then....any ideas from you folks?

Pics:
Live round almost chambered but slide stopped short:


Barrel throat and burr:


When it would fail to go into battery, I drop the mag, and the following round is pushed forward and has this dimple on it - every time:



Cycling rounds through manually is not smooth either. It's messing with my head though, that a few weeks back the store owner was able to run 3 mags through it no problem, and Kimber said their LE division tested it with 10 mags of various duty and ball loads prior to returning it. If it is me, I may be selling it. I've never had a problem with the previous Ultra I owned...this one is giving me a fit. It looks great thanks to the new slide from Kimber. I have a new spring assembly coming friday. Maybe that will help. So weird...

[mbw]

That failure to chamber is most likely caused by an extractor that is too tight. It could also be helped along by a rough breech face. One other possibility is your magazines. Does the problem happen with all mags?

Kimber put a new slide on your frame, correct? Take the pistol apart and put a cartridge up against the breech face and under the extractor, the way the pistol does when chambering a round. The extractor should be only tight enough to keep the round from falling out on its own. There should be a little movement when you shake the slide, but the round should not fall out. If it is so tight that the round is held flush to the breech with no movement, it needs to be adjusted.
It is fairly simple to adjust but if you have never done this yourself, don’t. Let your gunsmith do it. You have to pull the extractor out of the slide and bend it a little. It is easy to overdo it and ruin the extractor.

You should also check the breech face of the slide for any roughness or possible flow from the firing pin channel. If you find something the easy way to smooth it out is to take some 600 grit Emory cloth wrapped around a popsicle stick and polish it out.

There is probably nothing wrong with your barrel. Is it a new barrel or your old barrel that was fitted to your old slide?

[stroo]

I had a 3 inch Kimber that did the same thing yours is doing. The extractor had to be replaced and when that was done, it would not go into battery about once every box of 50. I had it worked on by Kimber gunsmith who replaced the springs and did some polishing. Didn't make any difference. About once or twice every box of 50 the gun would not go into battery. I could push it into battery but I didn't really feel comfortable carrying it so I got rid of it. Beautiful looking gun but not trustworthy enough for me.

[gigag04]

There is probably nothing wrong with your barrel. Is it a new barrel or your old barrel that was fitted to your old slide?

It is a brand new slide assembly. It had an external extractor, and I was getting constant FTEs. I attached images from the top and bottom with a round in the extractor. It is not flush against the breech, but it is pretty snug. It is snug more on the left side against the frame, more so than the tension working against the breech face.

[Excaliber]

You've got me scratching my head on this one.

The possibilities I see are:

1. Worn recoil spring assembly. I saw failure to go into battery on my 3" Kimber when I let the replacement wait too long, but my failure to go into battery was only occasional and only affected the last 1/4 inch or so of slide travel. In the pictures, yours is stopping way short of that.

2. Some type of magazine caused friction issue. I'd suggest trying a premium magazine like a Wilson and see if it still happens.

3. Thumb drag on the slide - this is easy to do without realizing it on a small gun. If the gun works for others and not for you, it might help to have another knowledgeable shooter closely observe the user / gun interaction during firing to look for something like this.

4. Lubrication in an area other than the slide rails. From the pictures you sent, I'd pay special attention to making sure a good oil like Brownell's Friction Defense is applied to the barrel cone where it mates with the slide, and the lugs on top of the barrel that mate with the inside of the slide. These are a friction points that correspond to about where your slide is stopping. You could also try a premium slide grease like the one available from Wilson's on the slide rails.

The part that really bothers me is that you said cycling rounds through manually isn't smooth either.

Is the ammo new manufacture or reloads? Improperly resized cases or cases that are bulged during the bullet seating process will definitely cause issues like the ones you're seeing. Not all reloaders' products are consistently kept within the specs necessary for proper function in a semiauto. I've even bought some that were so overlength they wouldn't chamber at all.

The dimple on the following round appears to be caused by the bottom of the slide hitting the rising case. This suggests either retarded slide velocity that allows this round to get too high before the slide passes over it, or a problem with the magazine's feeding angle such as improper configuration of the feed lips.

Is cycling smooth when no rounds are present? If so, it's not a slide to frame friction issue. It's got something to do with the magazine or the loads.

Ok, I'm about out of ideas. I hope this gives you at least a couple more things you can explore yourself without having to pay a gunsmith.

[gigag04]

I'm using Speer Lawman, Federal, and Gold Dots, in Wilson Combat (I think 47c) mags. Thumb drag on the slide now that it's on top of the safety is possible, but I would recognize that I *think* because I'm analzying every aspect of this gun shooting. Im getting the malfunction at least once per 7 rd mag, never the first two shots, rarely the last. Lube is CLP during and after cleaning. I bring Militec 1 to the range for when the gun is hotter.

I'm off this weekend. I'll get the new spring pack, try it out, and then wait for the smith to get in town if that doesn't work. If anyone close wants to give it a run, I'm game, but I'd prefer a very experienced shooter. I've been shooting 1911s since I was little, and have been through weeks of firearms training and this has me stumped. That said...it is really getting in my head that she was able to fire it flawlessly. I'm leaning towards selling it just for the mental relief I have it listed on TGT to see what interest I'll garner, but I'd only close a deal after the buyer was able to shoot it and have it run.

Thank you Exaliber (and others) for your input! Keep it coming.