Gun On Veterans Administration Property?

[alphonso]

I know that guns are prohibited inside VA hospitals. I'm not certain if they are also prohibited in hospital parking lots.

Does anyone know for sure?

Thanks for the help...

[Purplehood]

The parking lot is Federal property in most cases (except for leased clinics and the like). I wouldn't take my weapon to a VA Hospital, but might leave it in a car at a local VA clinic (and I do).

[texas1234]

I would not take it with you. I drove in the wrong driveway of the VA building in Austin off of 35 and thought I was going to freak out. I had my pistol with me and my shotgun last year for dove hunting. They have signs everywhere that vehicles are subject to mandatory search, armed guards, etc. It was not worth the mild heart attack I had before I had to explain to the guard that I needed to turn around and had made the wrong turn.

[xdfanatic]

I frequent the VA Hospital in Houston for regular Dr.'s visits and do not take my CCW because there are signs posted as you enter that say it is illegal. Upon searching on the net I found this in the VA police officers handbook:
t. Firearm and Dangerous Weapon Prohibition (18 U.S.C. 0 930). The following notice
will be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to the facility:
Whoever knowingly possesses or causes the presence of a firearm or other
dangerous weapon on the grounds or buildings of this facility, or attempts to
do so, is subject to fine or imprisonment of not more than one year, or both.
18 U.S.C Section 930a.
I believe that you cannot even have it in your car unless you park off of the premises which in Houston is not really a great area. YMMV IANAL etc.
Xd

[alphonso]

Thanks for the info gents

I was pretty sure that guns are also prohibited in VA parking lots, but wanted to get a second opinion.

[hirundo82]

I frequent the VA Hospital in Houston for regular Dr.'s visits and do not take my CCW because there are signs posted as you enter that say it is illegal. Upon searching on the net I found this in the VA police officers handbook:
t. Firearm and Dangerous Weapon Prohibition (18 U.S.C. 0 930). The following notice
will be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to the facility:
Whoever knowingly possesses or causes the presence of a firearm or other
dangerous weapon on the grounds or buildings of this facility, or attempts to
do so, is subject to fine or imprisonment of not more than one year, or both.
18 U.S.C Section 930a.
I believe that you cannot even have it in your car unless you park off of the premises which in Houston is not really a great area. YMMV IANAL etc.
Xd

The problem with that is that 18 USC §930 doesn't prohibit weapons on the grounds, only in the buildings. In fact, it reads very similarly to how Texas CHL law defines "premises".

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
...
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

The Postal Service posts their buildings and grounds similarly, but they actually have a regulation in the CFR to back up prohibiting weapons on the grounds. The VA may have a similar regulation, but the Code of Federal Regulations is so huge that it is difficult to find anything in there.

[ScottDLS]

I frequent the VA Hospital in Houston for regular Dr.'s visits and do not take my CCW because there are signs posted as you enter that say it is illegal. Upon searching on the net I found this in the VA police officers handbook:
t. Firearm and Dangerous Weapon Prohibition (18 U.S.C. 0 930). The following notice
will be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to the facility:
Whoever knowingly possesses or causes the presence of a firearm or other
dangerous weapon on the grounds or buildings of this facility, or attempts to
do so, is subject to fine or imprisonment of not more than one year, or both.
18 U.S.C Section 930a.
I believe that you cannot even have it in your car unless you park off of the premises which in Houston is not really a great area. YMMV IANAL etc.
Xd

The problem with that is that 18 USC §930 doesn't prohibit weapons on the grounds, only in the buildings. In fact, it reads very similarly to how Texas CHL law defines "premises".

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
...
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

The Postal Service posts their buildings and grounds similarly, but they actually have a regulation in the CFR to back up prohibiting weapons on the grounds. The VA may have a similar regulation, but the Code of Federal Regulations is so huge that it is difficult to find anything in there.

True. However, federal regulations in the CFR must have an enabling statute and 18 USC 930 is clear about their definition on premises and posting requirements. Unless the VA relies on a different enabling statute, it doesn't seem like they can override the statutory defintions in 18 USC 930. By the way, one exception to this is federal courts. 18 USC 930 has language enabling regulations to prohibit firearms on the "grounds" of federal courts. But VA property is not a court.

[alphonso]

OK, Now I'm confused again.

I would like to be able to take my sidearm when I make the long drive to the big city and then spend the rest of the day doing errands and visiting.

I know that getting "caught" for having a pistol tucked away in my car in the parking lot is a very remote possibility, but I don't want to break any law or take the risk.

Please, more info from knowledgeable people. (FYI, I searched far and wide on the net before I posted my question)...

[ScottDLS]

OK, Now I'm confused again.

I would like to be able to take my sidearm when I make the long drive to the big city and then spend the rest of the day doing errands and visiting.

I know that getting "caught" for having a pistol tucked away in my car in the parking lot is a very remote possibility, but I don't want to break any law or take the risk.

Please, more info from knowledgeable people. (FYI, I searched far and wide on the net before I posted my question)...

I understand your concern. As most have posted, it seems to be clear that carrying in the VA buildings is illegal (per 18 USC 930). There seem to be some signs and VA Police instructions that make reference to "grounds" and cite the same law. You can look up the law (on google or whatever) and there's nothing in it that backs up this contention. My personal opinion is that there is no federal law that prohibits you having your lawfully carried firearm in your car on VA property outside of their offices. I would have one in my car if I parked in a VA parking lot. But you have to decide what you are comfortable doing. There are a lot of signs around that don't carry the force of law. Some people choose to observe them. I don't. Then again, I take the risk of being the dreaded "test case.... "

-Scott

[Purplehood]

If it is a full-blown VA facility I don't bring a weapon anywhere near it. I leave it at home.
If it is a local clinic out in some township (for example, Conroe), I leave it in the car.

My recommendation: When in doubt, don't take a weapon.

[TXlaw1]

When I go to the VA hospital I park on the street outside their premises to avoid this situation. A little walk is worth being protected.

Also, a local Texas reserve peace officer forgot his gun was on him when he went to the VA hospital for treatment. When he revealed it to a nurse as he was taking off his shirt for an examination, she reported it to the VA cops who arrested him. He was charged and convicted in federal court of a misdemeanor for carrying his gun. Note that Texas reserve peace officers are authorized by Texas law to carry their weapon 24/7 in the state - but not on the VA property.

Be very careful about these fed VA cops.

[maxlib]

I have to go on the VA property in Houston next week to visit the Texas Veterans Commission. Since I am driving a long way to get there, about 100 miles, I guess I'm taking a chance. If there is some sort of parking outside the grounds off of Almeda Rd I'll park there. Otherwise.............

[mctowalot]

The Houston VA campus has several parking lots but still not enough parking. Every once in a while the VA cops will call for wrecker to tow away improperly parked vehicles. That's one of the few places I can think of that I refuse to tow cars from - and thank you for your service btw .

I wouldn't recommend parking anywhere close to the VA, it's all private property. However, there's a "Metro Transit Center" on Fannin street just south of 610. You could probably park your car there and take a bus or taxi.

[Purplehood]

The Houston VA campus has several parking lots but still not enough parking. Every once in a while the VA cops will call for wrecker to tow away improperly parked vehicles. That's one of the few places I can think of that I refuse to tow cars from - and thank you for your service btw .

I wouldn't recommend parking anywhere close to the VA, it's all private property. However, there's a "Metro Transit Center" on Fannin street just south of 610. You could probably park your car there and take a bus or taxi.

There is a major grocery-store across the street on Old Spanish Trail. I don't how closely they monitor the parking lot.

[hirundo82]

The Houston VA campus has several parking lots but still not enough parking. Every once in a while the VA cops will call for wrecker to tow away improperly parked vehicles. That's one of the few places I can think of that I refuse to tow cars from - and thank you for your service btw .

I wouldn't recommend parking anywhere close to the VA, it's all private property. However, there's a "Metro Transit Center" on Fannin street just south of 610. You could probably park your car there and take a bus or taxi.

There is a major grocery-store across the street on Old Spanish Trail. I don't how closely they monitor the parking lot.

They really don't monitor it; the lot is half-empty all day anyway (I live right near there and pass that store every day).

Construction workers from some of the nearby sites park there all day. Just park on the north end of the lot (near Old Spanish Trail) and nobody should care.