Mosin Nagant

[lonewolf]

G26ster,
There was another one in there with a composite stock that didn't fit well. I passed on that one. Much prefer the nice clean look of the wood, although a little heavy.

Big 54r,
It all seems pretty clean, but I'll certainly give your method a try. I really hate filing anything on any weapon. I did check without a round in the rifle, and it's only sticky when uncocked, whether loaded (after firing at the range), or unloaded. May be something to do with the pressure of the released firing mechanism.

G26ster,
Elm Fork isn't far away, off Luna and Spur 348. Exit Luna from 635 and head south. But since I am in Euless and we are so close, we can meet and go together. Nice outdoor facility. 100 yard rifle range, must have optics and shoot soft point, but in the tactical bay no optics are required and they have no problem with the FMJ surplus ammo for the Mosin. $15.00. I've been to Winchester a number of times and put several thousand holes in paper with my handguns there. Nice folks. Range safety officers at Elm Fork have been courteous and politely professional both times I have been there.

[NcongruNt]

It all seems pretty clean, but I'll certainly give your method a try. I really hate filing anything on any weapon. I did check without a round in the rifle, and it's only sticky when uncocked, whether loaded (after firing at the range), or unloaded. May be something to do with the pressure of the released firing mechanism.

The bolt actually cocks on open, so that may be what you are perceiving as "sticky". Yes, it is fairly significant resistance. The bolt design is unlike most bolts, so it may be a bit odd to operate at first.

[lonewolf]

Sounds like you hit the nail on the head, so to speak. I'll bet it's the point of cocking that is the point of resistance. It is definitely quite a bit of pressure to apply to push that mechanism back to cock it. If you pull the knob back by hand to cock it manually when working the bolt, its a bear to overcome the spring. The point of rotation when it cocks is the point of resistance, so I'll go with that and make sure all the bolt parts are clean, cosmoline free and properly lubricated. That should minimize the resistance.

Thanks!

[lonewolf]

Just in case you want to see the rest of the bike...

[G26ster]

G26ster,
There was another one in there with a composite stock that didn't fit well. I passed on that one. Much prefer the nice clean look of the wood, although a little heavy.

Nope, didn't see that one last week. If I did, I'd own it now

PM me when you think you'd like to go to Elm Fork. Being retired (everyday is Saturday for me) I can accommodate your schedule in most cases.

[drjoker]

ugh. i missed the sale you mentioned. cabela's never mailed me an ad with a mosin on it. a buddy of mine is looking for one to use for HD (it's all he could afford).

[lonewolf]

Probably not the best weapon for home defense, as the cycle rate on firing can be slow. I bought my Mossberg 500 for less than $200 used, and it came with both the 28"and 18" barrels, as well as the wood stock and the pistol grip to interchange as well. Very basic, very effective, very reliable. Larger capacity, easier to maneuver in tight areas, more rapid rate of fire, etc, etc..

I understand cost can be an issue for many, especially as I am looking at my 3rd layoff in 3 years to occur soon. That's one reason I went with the Mosin, although I admit the fun factor played a role as well. Surplus ammo is cheaper than my 9mm.

Have your buddy (and others) keep eyes open for a Mossberg would be my recommendation, and keep filling the penny jar with spare change to fund the purchase. Surprising how fast it adds up. 12ga shells aren't that expensive.

Best of luck!

Edit to add: Most Mosin Nagant rifles you will find are the 91/30 which is quite a bit longer than the carbine length ones, especially if the 20" bayonet is deployed.....

[lonewolf]

Here is a pic of the first target I shot with it. I guess the one shot was a little errant, but for iron sights at 30 yards, I'm not complaining....



I put another 60 rounds downrange today with much the same result. Definitely going to invest in a quality recoil pad......I did verify that the red circle is indeed 3 inches in diameter. Tried some shots today standing up and naturally wasn't quite as accurate, but still pretty darn good for an old bifocal wearer like me....

[atticus]

My experience is that the MNs get an undeserved reputation as being significantly less accurate than other milsurps (eg. the swedes and swiss guns). If you shoot good ammo thru a MN (eg. S&B) you will generally get better results. Even the best surplus 7.62x54R ammo is erratic at best. I've shot bulgarian, czech, and russian, and the results are spotty at best. Don't presume there's something wrong with the gun when it may just be the ammo. Besides, there are some inexpensive measures that can improve accuracy on a MN (eg. corking the end of the stock). I love my swedes, and I also love my MNs. just my 2 cents.

[tboesche]

I just picked up a 91/30 from Cabelas today. 1939 Tula. Can't wait to shoot it.

[NcongruNt]

My experience is that the MNs get an undeserved reputation as being significantly less accurate than other milsurps (eg. the swedes and swiss guns). If you shoot good ammo thru a MN (eg. S&B) you will generally get better results. Even the best surplus 7.62x54R ammo is erratic at best. I've shot bulgarian, czech, and russian, and the results are spotty at best. Don't presume there's something wrong with the gun when it may just be the ammo. Besides, there are some inexpensive measures that can improve accuracy on a MN (eg. corking the end of the stock). I love my swedes, and I also love my MNs. just my 2 cents.

Agreed. The problem is that there's a barrier to entry with decent quality ammo. The S&B ammo is very accurate and consistent through my guns, but it comes at a cost of a dollar or more (depending on bullet type) per round. There's no such market as 7.62x54R non-surplus range ammo, and S&B is the only choice out there. The alternative is to load your own, but that requires starting with brass, which you've either spent $1/round or more on loaded ammo from S&B or paid about the same price for empty brass from one of the three (to my knowledge) brass companies that produce the stuff.

From Midway USA, Norma brass will put you back $1.29/ea before shipping, when purchased in quantities of 500 (significantly more when purchased in smaller quantities). This is the only manufacturer that Midway carries

From Graf & Sons, there are two selections:

Lapua, which comes out to $0.94/ea bought in quantities of 100 (minus 5% when bought in quantities of 500)

Prvi Paritzan, which comes out to $0.46/ea before shipping when bought in quantities of 100 (minus 5% in quantities of 500, 10% in quantities of 1000). This is, however, perpetually out of stock, and I've never seen a supplier that has ever had it in stock. The cost is great, but availability renders it useless. I suppose you could backorder it, but who knows when it would actually come in.

I see from the history on the internet that there used to be "Winchester" brass in this caliber. I seriously doubt this was manufactured by them, as they source out these kinds of calibers to S&B. I recall buying a box of Winchester "metric" ammo in 9x18. When I turned over the box, it said made in Czech Republic, which means they had S&B produce the rounds for them with the Winchester stamp on it. It even included the tell-tale S&B sealing on the primer and mouth. It seemed to be Winchester trying to make a buck off the market when the Makarov guns were going like hotcakes about 4 years ago from surplus houses, without actually producing any ammo themselves. It was additionally priced a good 25-30% higher than the otherwise identical S&B ammo.

S&B claims to make 7.62x54R brass on their website, but I've never seen it on the market anywhere. A google search for the part number (SB33775) returns nothing for sources.

I agree, there's nothing inherently wrong with the guns or design. The problem exists that ammo availability is limited to surplus or expensive hunting/match rounds. There is no area in between, and even rolling your own is prohibitively expensive unless you're willing to ride out a backorder wait for months on end to get brass at a decent price. I'm not yet willing to have my cash sit in limbo to wait for brass of unknown delivery date, so I've simply resolved to collect my S&B empties (I'm up to around 23 now) until I have a sufficient amount of brass to work up a suffieicent set of test loads.

[lonewolf]

I admit to having only shot the surplus ammo, but since times are what they are and I'm looking at my 3rd layoff in 3 years, it'll just have to do for now. Still really pleased with the grouping. Having done some reading on these things, I have found that there is some deliberation on whether or not removing, folding, or shooting with the bayonet extended affects accuracy. Something about the bayonet dampening harmonics as the bullet passes through the barrel. I can't really see that I would be any more accurate with the bayonet (if it had one, like a 91/30). That kind of question probably never dawned on the designers/manufacturers/infantry. It shot, it shot straight, it shot reliably, and had a big pointy piece of steel on the end.

[NcongruNt]

I admit to having only shot the surplus ammo, but since times are what they are and I'm looking at my 3rd layoff in 3 years, it'll just have to do for now. Still really pleased with the grouping. Having done some reading on these things, I have found that there is some deliberation on whether or not removing, folding, or shooting with the bayonet extended affects accuracy. Something about the bayonet dampening harmonics as the bullet passes through the barrel. I can't really see that I would be any more accurate with the bayonet (if it had one, like a 91/30). That kind of question probably never dawned on the designers/manufacturers/infantry. It shot, it shot straight, it shot reliably, and had a big pointy piece of steel on the end.

Oh, the vast majority of the ammo I've put through my guns is surplus. I've gone through a good 2000 rounds of it. The difference in consistency between the surplus ammo and the S&B is quite distinct. However... there is some surplus ammo that seems to be better in consistency than others. Specifically, I and others have found the Czech light (147 grain) steel-core rounds to be some of the best-performing surplus ammo out there. I went through an entire crate of this ammo, and its reputation has made it much more difficult to locate these days. I also have some Hungarian heavy (182 grain) steel-core rounds to be pretty decent, though not as good as the Czech stuff.

One surplus ammo I would absolutely stay away from is East German. QC was really bad with this stuff. I bought 2 boxes of this, and 15% of them failed to ignite with solid primer strikes evident. To contrast this, all other surplus I've ever shot has been 100% reliable in ignition.

[big 54r]

If you shoot good ammo thru a MN (eg. S&B) you will generally get better results. Besides, there are some inexpensive measures that can improve accuracy on a MN (eg. corking the end of the stock).

atticus you must elaborate more on these accurizing techniques for the Mosin:
*corking end of stock etc.

please post more techniques!

[jlangton]

I've owned a 1947 dated Ishvesk M44 for a while now. I've had great results with the "Bear" line of steel cased ammo manufactured by Barnaul in Russia. I've shot the 174 gr FMJ, 203gr SP, and the 185gr FMJ's,and all have fired accurately. I like the 203 gr Brown Bear personally-they seem to have the best "feel" when shooting, and are cheap when compared to the other modern production ammo-not terribly much more expensive than the corrosive surplus stuff.
I have removed the steel buttplate and replaced it with the 1" spacer "recoil pad" that I picked up online. It does have some recoil to it, but it's not too bad-I'd say it's about like my Remington 742 in 30-06. Accuracy is pretty good-esp for a surplus WWII rifle that was designed in the latter part of the 19th century. I have no problems keeping rounds inside a 6" area at 100 yds with open sights. This thing is also quite a hoot to shoot during late evening, or at the indoor range-it makes a HUGE fireball-is quite entertaining seeing the looks from the others when you fire off this "cannon". I'd feel perfectly comfortable using it for hunting any legal game in Texas-it has more than enough power to take anything that's legal here, and is cheap enough to get a beginner started with a tight budget.
JL