Any preppers on here or other survival minded people?

[eureka40]

We've been stocking up on emergency food from here:

http://beprepared.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also we have water put back, G&A, a huge medical bag, and other stuff. Wife and I are too old and feeble to "bug out" so we will bug in here if need be.

[pbwalker]

There's some beautiful country up in northern Idaho and it ain't too crowded? There's this one place called Ruby Ridge and I'm sure that there are some others...?

In addition to northern Idaho, there may be some land available outside of Waco for communes?

[lrb111]

Wife and I are too old and feeble to "bug out" so we will bug in here if need be.

Somehow I think we would find a higher than average percentage from the group on this board that have planned to shelter in place.

[steve817]

It is something I have often thought about. The most realistic thing that I feel could happen to me would be a tornado that could potentially blow my supplies away. How do you prepare for that?

On the subject of water, instead of stocking up on water itself why not consider one of these http://www.lifesaversystems.com/buy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can also see a video of the product here. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am not affiliated with the company but I like the idea.

[pbwalker]

I was always a fan of: http://www.waterbob.com/Welcome.do;jses ... 9C2C76B6B5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[UpTheIrons]

I mayt be living in denial about this a little. We've stocked up some food supplies, and we should be able to evacuate to the family homestead if need be, where there is a steady water supply fed by a windmill, and tons of canned foods, but I have to deal with a wife who is a Type 1 diabetic.

No matter how much we prep, and how much we stock, there will come a time, if the manure really hits it, that she will die. Insulin will only last for so long, and you can bet that pharmacies will be the first to go in a major crisis. If things go south for more than 90 days, she's done, and I haven't come to grips with that quite yet - even though she came within mere hours of death before her diabetes was diagnosed 5 years ago.

I'm not trying to be morbid, but that's my reality.

[gregthehand]

I've looked into Northern Idaho and while the land is cheap and nicely isolated it's just to far away. In a worst case scenario walking or bicycling there would take well over one hundred days. Next I spent some time in Northern New Mexico around Taos. I actually spent most of my time up in Red River which is North of Taos. The only problems I have with that area is that land is VERY expensive and again it's a long way off. It's not impossible to imagine getting there but I'm trying to keep my travel to a BOL short but further than seventy five miles from a major city. So right now I'm looking at East Texas, South East Oklahoma, and possibly South Central Texas. All are relatively close and have a temperate climate that won't require suffering through a really harsh winter. The other thing with being close is making weekend trips to improve the property and build it up and get it ready for any impending use due to a crisis. Also the land is pretty dang cheap in those areas so that helps.

For those who have inquired Lights Out is about a HEMP being detonated over the US and rendering our power grid and most vehicles useless. The obvious repercussions of this are pretty dang harsh. Also just in case some are thinking about it a HEMP is not necessarily a result of a nuclear attack, however a nuclear attack detonated higher in the atmosphere would produce a HEMP. I talk with a guy pretty regularly who is a Nuclear Engineer and has actually briefed government agencies, and the military about the possibilities and one particular consequence of such an attack. One of his recent posts is quoted below.

First, let me state that I am nuclear engineer and have been studying this EMP phenomena for a while. To set the record straight, there are three types of EMP waves: E1, E2 and E3. A high altitude nuclear attack (HEMP) delivers all three types of waves. E1 is a very short duration wave (on the order of a billionth of a second) and is the one that will fry microelectronics. E2 is similar to lightning. E3 is a long wave and longer duration pulse that will damage power grids and some communications systems. A solar event only produces the E3 wave, so you don't have to worry about frying your vehicles electronics in the event of a CME.

One of the primary reasons for purchasing my M35A2 deuce and a half was that I consider it to be very robust against EMP. Keep in mind that both the Russians and the Chinese have a class of weapons called "Super EMP" weapons, which would produce huge field strengths and are designed specifically to knock out even EMP hardened communications and electronics (i.e., the level of hardness that our military communications and control systems are hardened to may not be enough to stop a Super EMP weapon from rendering then useless).

It should be noted that during the two North Koren nuclear tests, Iranian and Pakistani scientists were present at both of those tests. It should also be noted that the EMP Commission sponsored by Congress interviewed several Russian generals in 2003. They stated that there had been a brain drain from Russia and also China, and that several Russian and Chinese scientists had gone to work for North Korea to attempt to build Super EMP weapons. The Russian generals thought that it would take just a "couple of years" for the DPRK to be able to field Super EMP weapons (it's been 7 years now). If you recall, the first test by the DPRK was thought to be something of a "dud." However, that is exactly how a test of a Super EMP weapon would appear.

It should also be noted that the Iranians have been conducting test by launching missiles from a ship in the Caspian Sea and detonating them at apogee. Iran already has the Shahab-3 missile, which is a medium range missile that can reach any of its potential enemies in the Middle East (including Israel and Saudi Arabia). Why do they need to be testing ship launched missiles? Why, to reach other enemies which are NOT in the Middle East, of course (such as the U.S.A. - AKA the "Great Satan")!

Open source writings by the Chinese state quite clearly that any attack by them would begin with both an EMP and a cyber attack. Their writings also state that the U.S.A. is the most vulnerable nation to such an attack.

I have read both of the books noted in this thread ("One Second After" and "Lights Out"). Both are excellent and well worth reading. I would also recommend going to the EMPactAmerica.org website and listening to some of their blogspot radio broadcasts. Stunning and scary are two words that come to mind.

BTW, I just got back from a workshop last week at the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle, PA. The topic of the workshop was "Military Planning for a Catastrophic Critical Infrastructure Event." (This could be caused by a cyber attack, HEMP or solar event.) The event was invitation only. The reason that I was invited was to discuss something that few people had talked about as a consequence of an EMP attack or great solar storm - the effects on a nuclear power plant. At this time, there is NO PLAN for any government assistance to come to help any nuclear plant in the event of an EMP or solar storm (or anyone else for that matter). If an EMP happens, don't expect ANY HELP FROM THE GOVERNMENT AT ALL. If the grid goes down, nuclear power plants have only between 7 and 30 days of fuel to operate their emergency diesel generators. Bottom line, if a nuclear plant drops off the grid and cannot get additional fuel, you are looking at a Chernobyl type of event - NOT from the reactor (it is safely housed in a containment building), but from the spent fuel pool. If spent fuel pool cooling is lost, the pool will boil away the water, there will be an exothermic reaction between the zirconium cladding and there will be a propagating zirconium fire which will likely burn the roof off of the building and release huge amounts of radioactive isotopes into the atmosphere. I urge anyone living within 50 miles downwind of a nuclear power plant to be prepared to "bug out" within 4 days of an EMP event. Here is a link to an article that was recently posted on survival blog about this event that gives more details.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/09/eff ... or_se.html

Make your preparations soon. My sources tell me that there may be an attack by hostile forces on the U.S.A. before the end of the year... No guarantee of course - just a warning.

Not sure about the last part but he is the real deal and not just some guy posting on the internets. So that's one possibility (HEMP that is). If those who wish to hurt us had access to just one ICBM (I think the Russians and the UN would agree that they can) they could launch it from a ship in the Gulf of Mexico. The crazy thing is that it could be done before it even made it into port and therefore before it was inspected or searched.

[CaptWoodrow10]

gregthehand, can you post a citation or link to that quote. I would like to read up on this a bit more. The last few lines have got me concerned, and I'd like to see what else is posted there. I'm nowhere near the tin foil hat stage yet, but I like stay on top of things like this. Common sense and all. TIA.

[gregthehand]

I forgot to add that "One Second After" is also a very good read and I have it as well. Currently I'm reading "Patriots" which is about a breakdown due to economic reasons. The results would take longer but be about the same.

[gregthehand]

gregthehand, can you post a citation or link to that quote. I would like to read up on this a bit more. The last few lines have got me concerned, and I'd like to see what else is posted there. I'm nowhere near the tin foil hat stage yet, but I like stay on top of things like this. Common sense and all. TIA.

You can read about it on the Survival Blog which is the link toward the end. The place where he posted that was a military vehicle sight that I frequent. I bought a CUCV from the military in order to have a vehicle that EMP resistant. Below is a link to that post. My name on there in Niferous.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread ... hlight=emp

[Abraham]

I wonder how many would'nt care to go on living if the world were to evolve into a Post Apocalyptic nightmare with no end within reasonable sight?

Of course, there are those who THINK they'd like to see a return to low technology living, i.e., everyone having to raise their own groceries in addition to living off the land, and be able to tan their own hides, repair just about anything, and well, just be able to cope with everything and anything. Hooboy, what a fun world! Poor water quality and disease everywhere.

There'd be no freely available fully trained medical or dental folks, (try discovering the delights of tooth aches without treatment or pain killers - in times gone by, people were known to commit suicide from the relentless pain of tooth ache) horse drawn (assuming you have a horse or two) everything, and on and on. Psssst, better know some veterinary medicine too, and have some actual vet meds cuz poor old Nelly will get sick too... Bone up on smithery too.

Some, might just might opt out of the program altogether and let the more willing souls face life without daily bathing and clean underwear, not to mention the hordes of "have nots" who will visit you as they'd be ready to kill and steal what's rightfully yours. Yeah, we know you carry guns, but are you a trained soldier?

For most of my childhood, I lived in what may be viewed as akin to a Post Apocalyptic existence. Let me tell you, it isn't romantic in the least. I won't go into the details, but I can tell you that after the balance of my now rather long life being lived in a high standard of living, the thought of returning to THAT standard of living holds no appeal for me.

Am I being pessimistic?

Of course I am.

But, I have no desire to go through the struggle of bringing the world back to normalcy from a Post Apocalyptic scenario.

If you do, I wish you great good luck.

Am I in the minority who think this way?

I doubt it...

[PRO]

Prepping doesn’t have to be for an apocalyptic occurrence, it can also be just preparing for the little things such as my family losing our source of income. I’m not Mormon but I do like one of their teachings that is something like, ‘No man should allow himself to become a burden on another while he is still able’. If I lose my job, I have the food, supplies and set aside the means to support my family without sucking up unemployment, welfare, food stamps ect. I believe if more people did prepare we wouldn’t have a need for social programs funded out of my pockets.

I hope I’m not delusional to think that nothing can happen and everything will be taken care of. It’s my job to protect my family and set aside the things to insure their survival be it due to our economic situation, my death or some disaster, (natural or manmade). Only in the recent years has the average American’s mentality become the ‘just run to the store’ attitude. In the 50’s people would stock up. Now we just buy big cars, big houses and TV’s and not even think about being responsible or practicable.

I don’t need a tin foil hat to see that our country is broke and the repercussions that can occur from this. So I chose to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Note: I've edited this post to remove guns from the list as it sounded like I'm anti-gun.

[The Annoyed Man]

I forgot to add that "One Second After" is also a very good read and I have it as well. Currently I'm reading "Patriots" which is about a breakdown due to economic reasons. The results would take longer but be about the same.

Read 'em both, and they gave me the willies.

[The Annoyed Man]

gregthehand, can you post a citation or link to that quote. I would like to read up on this a bit more. The last few lines have got me concerned, and I'd like to see what else is posted there. I'm nowhere near the tin foil hat stage yet, but I like stay on top of things like this. Common sense and all. TIA.

You can read about it on the Survival Blog which is the link toward the end. The place where he posted that was a military vehicle sight that I frequent. I bought a CUCV from the military in order to have a vehicle that EMP resistant. Below is a link to that post. My name on there in Niferous.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread ... hlight=emp

Greg, is it that these vehicles have been hardened to EMP, or is that they lack the digital engine management stuff that can get fried in an EMP?

Also, where do you find them?

[Hoi Polloi]

I've looked into Northern Idaho and while the land is cheap and nicely isolated it's just to far away. In a worst case scenario walking or bicycling there would take well over one hundred days. Next I spent some time in Northern New Mexico around Taos. I actually spent most of my time up in Red River which is North of Taos. The only problems I have with that area is that land is VERY expensive and again it's a long way off. It's not impossible to imagine getting there but I'm trying to keep my travel to a BOL short but further than seventy five miles from a major city. So right now I'm looking at East Texas, South East Oklahoma, and possibly South Central Texas. All are relatively close and have a temperate climate that won't require suffering through a really harsh winter. The other thing with being close is making weekend trips to improve the property and build it up and get it ready for any impending use due to a crisis. Also the land is pretty dang cheap in those areas so that helps.

For those who have inquired Lights Out is about a HEMP being detonated over the US and rendering our power grid and most vehicles useless. The obvious repercussions of this are pretty dang harsh. Also just in case some are thinking about it a HEMP is not necessarily a result of a nuclear attack, however a nuclear attack detonated higher in the atmosphere would produce a HEMP. I talk with a guy pretty regularly who is a Nuclear Engineer and has actually briefed government agencies, and the military about the possibilities and one particular consequence of such an attack. One of his recent posts is quoted below.

First, let me state that I am nuclear engineer and have been studying this EMP phenomena for a while. To set the record straight, there are three types of EMP waves: E1, E2 and E3. A high altitude nuclear attack (HEMP) delivers all three types of waves. E1 is a very short duration wave (on the order of a billionth of a second) and is the one that will fry microelectronics. E2 is similar to lightning. E3 is a long wave and longer duration pulse that will damage power grids and some communications systems. A solar event only produces the E3 wave, so you don't have to worry about frying your vehicles electronics in the event of a CME.

One of the primary reasons for purchasing my M35A2 deuce and a half was that I consider it to be very robust against EMP. Keep in mind that both the Russians and the Chinese have a class of weapons called "Super EMP" weapons, which would produce huge field strengths and are designed specifically to knock out even EMP hardened communications and electronics (i.e., the level of hardness that our military communications and control systems are hardened to may not be enough to stop a Super EMP weapon from rendering then useless).

It should be noted that during the two North Koren nuclear tests, Iranian and Pakistani scientists were present at both of those tests. It should also be noted that the EMP Commission sponsored by Congress interviewed several Russian generals in 2003. They stated that there had been a brain drain from Russia and also China, and that several Russian and Chinese scientists had gone to work for North Korea to attempt to build Super EMP weapons. The Russian generals thought that it would take just a "couple of years" for the DPRK to be able to field Super EMP weapons (it's been 7 years now). If you recall, the first test by the DPRK was thought to be something of a "dud." However, that is exactly how a test of a Super EMP weapon would appear.

It should also be noted that the Iranians have been conducting test by launching missiles from a ship in the Caspian Sea and detonating them at apogee. Iran already has the Shahab-3 missile, which is a medium range missile that can reach any of its potential enemies in the Middle East (including Israel and Saudi Arabia). Why do they need to be testing ship launched missiles? Why, to reach other enemies which are NOT in the Middle East, of course (such as the U.S.A. - AKA the "Great Satan")!

Open source writings by the Chinese state quite clearly that any attack by them would begin with both an EMP and a cyber attack. Their writings also state that the U.S.A. is the most vulnerable nation to such an attack.

I have read both of the books noted in this thread ("One Second After" and "Lights Out"). Both are excellent and well worth reading. I would also recommend going to the EMPactAmerica.org website and listening to some of their blogspot radio broadcasts. Stunning and scary are two words that come to mind.

BTW, I just got back from a workshop last week at the U.S. Army War College in Carlisle, PA. The topic of the workshop was "Military Planning for a Catastrophic Critical Infrastructure Event." (This could be caused by a cyber attack, HEMP or solar event.) The event was invitation only. The reason that I was invited was to discuss something that few people had talked about as a consequence of an EMP attack or great solar storm - the effects on a nuclear power plant. At this time, there is NO PLAN for any government assistance to come to help any nuclear plant in the event of an EMP or solar storm (or anyone else for that matter). If an EMP happens, don't expect ANY HELP FROM THE GOVERNMENT AT ALL. If the grid goes down, nuclear power plants have only between 7 and 30 days of fuel to operate their emergency diesel generators. Bottom line, if a nuclear plant drops off the grid and cannot get additional fuel, you are looking at a Chernobyl type of event - NOT from the reactor (it is safely housed in a containment building), but from the spent fuel pool. If spent fuel pool cooling is lost, the pool will boil away the water, there will be an exothermic reaction between the zirconium cladding and there will be a propagating zirconium fire which will likely burn the roof off of the building and release huge amounts of radioactive isotopes into the atmosphere. I urge anyone living within 50 miles downwind of a nuclear power plant to be prepared to "bug out" within 4 days of an EMP event. Here is a link to an article that was recently posted on survival blog about this event that gives more details.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/09/eff ... or_se.html

Make your preparations soon. My sources tell me that there may be an attack by hostile forces on the U.S.A. before the end of the year... No guarantee of course - just a warning.

Not sure about the last part but he is the real deal and not just some guy posting on the internets. So that's one possibility (HEMP that is). If those who wish to hurt us had access to just one ICBM (I think the Russians and the UN would agree that they can) they could launch it from a ship in the Gulf of Mexico. The crazy thing is that it could be done before it even made it into port and therefore before it was inspected or searched.

I had to look up what the acronyms EMP and HEMP mean and together with that knowledge and the article here and the one linked in that post, that is the totality of my knowledge on this subject.

I know there is a nuclear reactor in Glen Rose and there apparently is another in Bay City near Houston according to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

I remember the Downwinders saying that the Midlothian cement factories are upwind from Dallas and create toxic air pollution in North Texas. If the wind takes Midlothian air straight up to Dallas in a NE direction, Fort Worth would be on the same NE trajectory from Glen Rose, meaning it would be immediately downstream from the reactor that's 50 miles away, right? I know less about Texas meteorology than I do about nuclear physics, but that doesn't seem like a good situation to be in even with my huge lack of knowledge.

From the article, it seems like the pools should have the same containment walls and ceiling as the reactor. How would one lobby for these protections to be put in place and what are the chances that such a lobby could be effective? It seems like a rather easy fix in comparison to the potential catastrophic consequences.