Couple of reasons why I'm pursuing my CHL

[LAYGO]

I've taken the class & will send off the application in Jan, which is 5 years after a lil run in with Addison police . . . another story all together (but know I'm still a good guy!).

Two incidents have been the culmination to me wanting my CHL. One occurred in Houston about 1998-1999 and the other in Dallas about 2006.

Being the son of an Army lifer Father and 20yr paramedic Mother has brought up some interesting debates about firearms growing up. My Mom won, so we were never allowed firearms. I never fired a pistol until about 2004. I was 31.

The Houston incident answers a question I've seen asked here: Would you get involved if you didn't have a gun?

[LAYGO]

HOUSTON INCIDENT:
While out at the movies on Dunvale, between Westheimer and Richmond, a guy took a woman's purse while exiting. She didn't immediately realize it and she started raising a ruckus while in the theater. She then ran through the crowd looking for her purse.

We were near a back theater from the main entrance & by time she was near the main entrance, she found the guy carrying her purse. She was yelling and screaming all this stuff at him, until the guy looses his cool and raises up to hit her. She scampers away unharmed, but now being yelled at by the guy.

As I observe this, I tell my friends & significant other to call the police while I'm approaching this altercation. I confront him about wanting to hit a woman. At that point, he and his partner start yelling at me & saying "come on then" getting in a fighting stance.

Right then, two off duty, but uniformed HPD officers walk up. They ask what's going on. I tell them about the purse, but the lady is gone at this point. The cop says I can leave & proceeds to question the two guys.

Ignorantly, we leisurely walk to our car, recapping the incident. We get to our cars & our group is splitting up when we notice the two guys running to their car about a row over. We say our goodbyes & get in the car.

As we're getting in line to exit the parking lot, the two guys in their car come speeding passed & swerve at our car I'm driving. Once in front of us, they brake check us, attempting to get us to hit them. At this point we call the police . . . again.

We're now at the light to Westheimer & they've tried to brake check us a couple of more times. I've given the cops the make/model/plate number & cops are like, "don't follow them". I inform them that's next to impossible as it's a two lane road.

They make a right & we foolishly take the same turn as that's the direction we NEED to go. We're now heading east on Westheimer. Westheimer is 6 lanes wide (then at least) in this area. The guys are in the middle lane & we're several car lengths behind them, still on the phone with the police.

Suddenly, they stop at a GREEN LIGHT, put their car in park in the middle of Westheimer, and start walking towards us. I'm describing this all to police at the time. We had our windows already rolled down.

I don't remember what I was thinking, but I basically froze. I didn't try to drive around them or leave or whatever. As the situation is slowly sinking in, they're yelling at us with our windows down, I start rolling them up as the guy on my side tries to punch me. I duck right & he misses & his arm is getting pushed by the window. My SO is leaning left while the guy is reaching at her shirt/hair.

All this time, I'm stuck, I can't move & they get in their car & drive away. Never see them again. Still on the phone with police, they're saying something, but it's tunnel vision and hearing. Adrenaline through the roof, but I'm frozen still.

Police never come to us, never call us back & tell us anything, nothing. I just knew, I never wanted to feel helpless like that again. We're both safe, but it could've been so much worse. All this too because I came to the aid of a woman I saw needing help. That's my Mom's paramedic and Dad's Vietnam medic again rubbing off on me.

[LAYGO]

DALLAS INCIDENT:
On my way to work, I'm stopping in convience store at Mockingbird/Irving Blvd for a quick breakfast a burrito. Nice day, windows are down & I'm on "cruise control". I am not a morning person. Sluggish physically and mentally. It's about 9am.

As I'm pulling into a really small/cramped parking lot that's full, a truck is backing out. I've got about 1-1.5 car lengths behind me to morning rush hour traffic. I've got about 2 car lengths in front of me to the truck backing out. I've got parked cars & large rocks to my left/rigth.

The truck gets about a car length away & stops, still in reverse. I'm leaning my head on my arm in the window, yawning & just waiting for him to clear out so I can park in that spot. After who knows how long, he starts power braking the truck in reverse for a few seconds.

Next thing I know, he's getting out of his truck and approaching me. He starts yelling & screaming & it's just not registering to me what's going on. I can't even hear what he's saying.

He's starting to come close to my window as I'm rolling it up & then hammer punches the window, turns gets in his truck, pulls forward & left out of the parking lot. I can only guess he wanted me to back up further (to where?) so he could do something. I haven't a clue.

I never called the police or even got a license plate. I just went on about my day. It was in later recalling this event & the Houston event that got me really thinking about personal safety. I even gave the story of the Dallas incident to my CHL instructor and asked how he would handle it. He says he would've drawn on the guy & told him to return to his truck & drive away NOW!

The followup & talking about later is what has REALLY raised my situational awareness and thinking faster on my feet. I haven't had any other issues like this, but now when I stop for gas or parking some place new, I'm always scanning my surroundings.

The closest thing to having another "issue" came once when I stopped in a grocery store in a kinda unsavory neighorhood. I saw a guy eyeing my car ('96 Impala SS, rap video staple) as I'm pulling in, but he's got all of his stuff & looks like he's leaving the parking lot. I'm in and out in a matter of 2 mins, when I come out, this guy is standing 3 feet away from my driver side door.

My spidey senses start tingling, and I'm thinking about the gun on the floorboard, my knife in my pocket. He never backed up as I had walk between him and the car to get inside. I however was keeping him in my peripherial vision & never turning my back to him until the very last second of getting into my car. I drive away without incident, but I was way more aware and thinking ahead.

In my short time here on this forum, I've seen a ton of feedback that I've already further incorporated into my thought process or decision making. I want to thank you all!

[bnc]

I'm glad that you managed to stay out of harm in both of those incidents. When it comes to car related altercations, I'm not getting out of my car under any circumstances or even roll the window down.

[hangfour]

Hello ... thanks for posting those interesting (and scary) incidents. I recommend that you read the book "Strong on Defense" by Sanford Strong. It describes many such incidents and some that even more grizzly. He gives some sound advise about how to react generally and specifically. I think it is a must read for anyone considering carrying who does not want to have to draw and shoot unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (which is me). All the best.

[10Shooter]

Hello ... thanks for posting those interesting (and scary) incidents. I recommend that you read the book "Strong on Defense" by Sanford Strong. It describes many such incidents and some that even more grizzly. He gives some sound advise about how to react generally and specifically. I think it is a must read for anyone considering carrying who does not want to have to draw and shoot unless ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY (which is me). All the best.

Thanks for the book reference!

[LAYGO]

Thanks for the book reference HangFour, I will look into it.

@BNC, the windows were already down & weren't put down as the event progressed. It was actually just nice out, so we had the windows down.

I'm already looking to expand my arsenal soon. The 4513TSW is sentimental because it was my Father's & bequeathed to me. I'd hate to lose it. So I think I'm going to make it a night stand gun. I'm thinking a polymer S&W M&P .45 compact for carry & something in a double stack .40-.45 for in the car full time. My carry will remain on me if I have to E&E from the car.

Then in the future, an M4/AR15 variant for the house & general plinking cool factor & a shottie for protection.

[MadMonkey]

LAYGO? As in the same LAYGO from NTA? Just curious...

[LAYGO]

LAYGO? As in the same LAYGO from NTA? Just curious...

INDEED! I saw your nick & immediately thought it looked familiar too! Besides that, how many LAYGO's do you know?!

[LAYGO]

WHY I CAN NOT APPLY FOR MY CHL UNTIL JAN 2011:
Thanks to a lil run in with Addison's "finest" in Aug 2005, I've been unable to get my CHL, even though I've wanted it for awhile.

My SO & I decided at the last minute to go see Frank Caliendo at the Addison Improv on a Saturday night. Money was tight prior to this, but we finally got back on track & were able to afford a night out. She being a student & us just having bought our first home. I had also scheduled some time off on Monday to get my expired registration/inspection taken care of. I knew I could gamble on not spending on the registration/inspection because I could get it fixed once I got money. Other stuff REQUIRED the money first.

As I dropped off my SO to go buy tickets, I was looking for parking. While driving thru a back alley, an Addison officer was driving the opposite direction. I note it, but go continue to park. I find a spot, parked, locked up, and out of the car when the officer pulls in at a 45deg angle (tight parking lot). He says he saw the expired tags.

No big deal, I tell him I've already got time off scheduled to handle it. I don't sweat the ticket I'm sure to receive. He asks for my insurance. I had LITERALLY just printed a new card on FRI & put it my car. I hadn't yet cut it, so it was on the seat, but when my SO got in the car she moved it. I don't know where she put it. So, with the officer over my shoulder shining his flashlight into the car, I'm digging around in my car that looks like I was living in it. It was messy, but not dirty. I had a couple of changes of clothes on the seats, a bunch of papers on the floorboard.

I told the officer, I have it, but can't find it, ticket me & I'll get it dismissed. All this time, I'm cooperative/nice, but I believe I was profiled. I'm of latino descent, driving an Impala SS, with expired stuff. At this point, the officer places me under arrest for all the expired stuff & no insurance. I was expecting to be ticketed! Then a "search subsequent to arrest" is conducted. He was already looking in my car over my shoulder, but something made him want to search it further.

He searches my car & finds my allergy meds, OTC pain killers (tylenol/alleve) & begins to question me about it. I tell him calmly exactly what they were. He then asks my SO what they were. She's (now) a Clinical Pscyhologist PhD, but then 5 years into the program & she was saying the 'non brand name': Alleve was "Naproxen Sodium", tylenol was "ibuprofen", etc. This kind of frustrated the officer because I'm sure he thought he had a drug bust, yet we're both consistent in our answers.

There was nothing illegal in my car. No guns, my pocket knife is legal, no drugs. Nothing. No one is even allowed to smoke in my car, so he did NOT smell ANYTHING. He searched for a good length of time. Meanwhile, I see that I'm being recorded (found the mic not so very hidden) & I'm sitting in the back of the SUV & laughing & singing along to the music on the radio. While he's searching, two very obviously drunk women stumble by & even leaning on the police SUV for balance until they even realize it's a cop car. They're not even told to move on or questioned or ANYTHING. Who knew if they got in a car to drive home.

All this time I figure I'll be ticketed STILL! After about 30 mins, he makes his way to the front passenger side after sweeping around counterclockwise. Under the seat, he finds a billy club.

This solid wooden baton/billy club was part of a friend's halloween costume. I have pictures to prove it. He came dressed as Fidel Castro & was carrying it around & left it at my place. It was going to be returned to him the previous weekend, but I had put it in my car & we ended up taking my SO's car & was forgotten. This is a perfect example of a series of events that chain together to create a perfect crap storm.

I was 100% honest with the officer. He brought it to me & I laughed saying that was a friend's halloween costume. I'm locked up in the SUV & my SO is 50' away. He goes to her, asks her. She answers the same. It doesn't matter. I'm charged NOW with 46.02 UCW (Club). Class A misdemeanor. They initially wanted it a felony because it was on the grounds of a place that served alcohol. Since the parking lot served MORE than just Improv, they dropped it to the Class A.

Can beat the rap, but can't beat the ride. Spent 8hrs in jail. A $400 fine, 14 month deferred adjudication, court costs, supervision fees. All told about $1500. I got every other charge dismissed: Expired Tag/Inspection & No Insurance.

I know some of you will say I deserved it for the expired tags, but still, a typically TICKETABLE offense to arrest? All while I was nice & compliant & non-argumentative? I was never even mad. I was laughing & singing while handcuffed in the back of his SUB! I was not drinking or high or anything. I do deserve some blame, but GOLLY GEE BEAV!?!?!?

[jamisjockey]

And this is why you don't drive on expired tags and make sure your car is always in working order.
Several police I've talked to, including one who is a Louisville KY officer and was the best man at my wedding....anyways, most cops are looking for more than speeding tickets. If you get hooked for a traffic infraction, you're usually cited/warned and release. If they are pulling you over for something else (tail light out, broken windshield, expired tags), they immediately begin profiling you to figure out what else you've got going on.

[baldeagle]

Laygo, I can't tell from your story whether the Addison police officer profiled you because you're Hispanic or not. It's certainly possible he did, but it may also be possible that he profiled the car; expired tag, typical gangbanger ride, etc., etc. My daughters have dated both black men and Hispanic men, and my oldest married a Puerto Rican. My youngest is dating a second-generation Mexican-American. (They're both wonderful guys, btw.) So I have personally observed prejudice toward both blacks and Hispanics and know what it looks like.

I write this because I want you to consider something. If you read Maya Angelou's I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings, there's a passage where she tells the story of shopping in a store in Africa. The clerk was rude and discourteous. It reminded Maya of many incidents in America that she had experienced and attributed to racism. But the clerk was a black African. It was an eye-opening experience for Maya (and for me when I read it), because it taught her that not all maltreatment can be attributed to racism. It made her rethink many of the memories from her childhood and youth. Some people are just jerks (and for many different reasons). Your race has nothing to do with their behavior.

I'm not saying that's the case in your Addison caper. Just that you should always leave open the possibility that the person you are interacting with is a jerk, or just got their butt chewed by their supervisor, or just got a radio call describing a car very similar to yours that was involved in a robbery, or any of a million other reasons than racism. Racism absolutely exists, everywhere in the world. There's no question about that. But it doesn't explain every interaction between people of different races, and it should not be the default assumption when things don't go as we would like.

Your behavior was admirable in the situation. It's unfortunate that the officer didn't take that into account. I'm not sure I would be as patient as you were under similar circumstances.

[Ameer]

If they are pulling you over for something else (tail light out, broken windshield, expired tags), they immediately begin profiling you to figure out what else you've got going on.

Broken windshield? That's a crock of fish. The windshield isn't even an inspection item.

[jamisjockey]

If they are pulling you over for something else (tail light out, broken windshield, expired tags), they immediately begin profiling you to figure out what else you've got going on.

Broken windshield? That's a crock of fish. The windshield isn't even an inspection item.

Depends on what state you're in.

[Ameer]

Depends on what state you're in.

Texas!