CHL holder killed by police in Las Vegas at a Costco

[baldeagle]

Note that in the article linked by puma guy the Goodman family attorney is reported as stating that the family will file a federal civil rights lawsuit claiming Costco is "primarily responsible" for the excessive police response.

[philip964]

Here is a good link that allows you to look at the motion filed by Costco.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/25225475/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It you read down it accuses Erik of criminal activity inside the store. Today in Nevada they held some sort of CCW forum and a Police detective from Las Vegas said that Erik Scott committed a felony by carrying a .380 that was only similar to the one he qualified on. Apparently you must carry the same model of gun you qualified with. Obviously another capital offense.

Glad I live in Texas.

[puma guy]

Here is a good link that allows you to look at the motion filed by Costco.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/25225475/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It you read down it accuses Erik of criminal activity inside the store. Today in Nevada they held some sort of CCW forum and a Police detective from Las Vegas said that Erik Scott committed a felony by carrying a .380 that was only similar to the one he qualified on. Apparently you must carry the same model of gun you qualified with. Obviously another capital offense.

Glad I live in Texas.

This request was filed "ex parte'' by Costco's lawyer. They continue to try to deny Erik's side to be represented. Hey, it worked during the inquest, why not try to keep it that way?

I don't know if a dead body can be charged with a felony or not but this is just stupid. They didn't even know he had the second gun until EMT's found it. If you follow his logic to charge after they're dead we can shoot before we actually know someone's breaking the law.

[baldeagle]

Here is a good link that allows you to look at the motion filed by Costco.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/25225475/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It you read down it accuses Erik of criminal activity inside the store. Today in Nevada they held some sort of CCW forum and a Police detective from Las Vegas said that Erik Scott committed a felony by carrying a .380 that was only similar to the one he qualified on. Apparently you must carry the same model of gun you qualified with. Obviously another capital offense.

Glad I live in Texas.

The police detective is an idiot. He may be the same detective whose testimony in the inquest was so confusing that he was extremely hard to follow.

However, Costco employees were never aware that Erik had the Ruger (if he had it at all - wait for the civil trial), so they cannot justify their employees' response by claiming he was engaging in criminal activity. Furthermore, it's a $25 civil penalty for each violation. Last time I checked we don't apply the death penalty for civil penalties and civil penalties are not felonies.

Nevada gun laws

2. Except as otherwise provided in this section, the sheriff shall issue a permit for revolvers, one or more specific semiautomatic firearms, or for revolvers and one or more specific semiautomatic firearms, as applicable, to any person who is qualified to possess the firearm or firearms to which the application pertains under state and federal law, who submits an application in accordance with the provisions of this section

NRS 202.3667 Permittee to carry permit and proper identification when in possession of concealed firearm; penalty.

1. Each permittee shall carry the permit, or a duplicate issued pursuant to the provisions of NRS 202.367, together with proper identification whenever the permittee is in actual possession of a concealed firearm. Both the permit and proper identification must be presented if requested by a peace officer.

2. A permittee who violates the provisions of this section is subject to a civil penalty of $25 for each violation.

(Added to NRS by 1995, 2724)

What they may be referring to is his supposed impairment due to prescription drugs. But that claim was only testified to by Costco employees, and their testimony regarding that issue can be discounted, because they have a strong motivation to make the claim. There was not one shred of supporting evidence during the inquest from anyone other than Costco employees that Erik was impaired, and numerous customers saw him and noticed nothing unusual.

Am I the only one that thinks Nevada's CCW requirements are just plain stupid? It's bad enough that Texas distinguishes between revolvers and semiautomatics, but between each specific one? And what's the logic behind distinguishing between the two? Is there something special about a revolver that makes them "one size fits all"?

[baldeagle]

If you are a Clark County resident all firearms listed on the permit must be registered with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.

From http://www.lvmpd.com/permits/firearms_concealed.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Erik's Ruger 380 (LCP?) was registered with LVMPD as was his Keltec P-3AT and his Kimber 1911, and his registration forms were on his person when he was shot.

[baldeagle]

Ditto for the whole "Green Beret" claim - did anyone else apart from the Costco employee hear that?

There was no testimony of that from anyone but Shai Lierley and the dispatchers and police who were simply parroting what Lierley stated.

[baldeagle]

If you are a Clark County resident all firearms listed on the permit must be registered with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.

From http://www.lvmpd.com/permits/firearms_concealed.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Erik's Ruger 380 (LCP?) was registered with LVMPD as was his Keltec P-3AT and his Kimber 1911, and his registration forms were on his person when he was shot.

I read this:

Detective Barry Jensen was Thursday’s other witness. Jensen is a homicide detective assigned to investigate the shooting.

Jensen said he has investigated about 70 police use-of-force incidents in the last 10 years but doesn’t recall any having as many witnesses as this one. Jensen testified that Scott didn’t have a permit to carry the gun that was in his pocket when he was shot.

Scott carried a Ruger .380 semi-automatic handgun and a .45-caliber Kimber single-action pistol. The Kimber was found in its holster not far from where Scott’s body landed after he was shot. The Ruger was found in Scott’s clothing as he was being taken to the hospital.

Scott had a concealed carry permit and seven gun registrations in his wallet, but the permit didn’t include the Ruger.

“That’s a felony crime in Nevada,” Jensen said.

The permit did list a .380 Kel Tec, which is similar.

Any more info on that? I find it hard to believe that Erik would have an unregistered pistol.

The information is accurate with one exception. I challenge Jensen to cite the Nevada statute that makes it a felony to carry a semiautomatic that you have not been permitted to carry concealed. The only thing I could find was the previously cited $25 civil penalty.

[baldeagle]

I challenge Jensen to cite the Nevada statute that makes it a felony to carry a semiautomatic that you have not been permitted to carry concealed. The only thing I could find was the previously cited $25 civil penalty.

I think I've figured out how they're coming up with this felony claim. NRS 202.350 1) d) 3) makes it a category C felony punishable by 1 to 5 years in state prison and up to a $10,000 fine for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit. Nevada CCW requires that you qualify for each semiautomatic you want to carry by make, model and caliber. (So you could carry any one of your six Kimber 1911s, but the minute you buy a Sig 1911 you have to qualify and be permitted for that one as well.) So their interpretation of the law is that, if you haven't been permitted for that make, model and caliber, even if you are a lawfully permitted CCW holder, you have committed a felony. I suspect that's not what the legislature had in mind when they wrote the laws, but that's how LVMPD interprets it. So, even though Erik was qualified and permitted to carry the Keltec P-3AT, he committed a felony by carrying the Ruger, even though it's a very similar gun.

Now the question is, what gun(s) was Erik carrying? The cops went to his house and, despite the insistent protests of his father, searched his house shortly after he was killed. Did they grab the Ruger and substitute it for the Keltec to cover their rear ends? I wouldn't put it past them at all. According to a family member, he only had one gun on him and he never drew that one.

I've thought about this some. How can witnesses testify to someone reaching for or pulling out a gun if a person never pulled it out? Well, no honest citizen wants to believe that the police would shoot someone who wasn't pointing a gun at them. So, one person swore he saw a Sig pointing directly at the officers and not in a holster. (Clearly mistaken.) Another swore he saw Erik make a move that was clearly the drawing of a weapon to fire. (Clearly mistaken - the hammer was not cocked,) A number of witnesses said they saw what they thought was a gun. Others said they saw a gun in a holster. (Could they have seen the holstered gun on the ground after the incident and thought, "Well, he must have pointed it at them.")?

The civil trial could be very interesting.

[TexasGal]

This whole thing stinks of Costco and the Police having a vested interest in protecting each other in every way possible. I will never give Costco one dime of my business.

[seamusTX]

Erik Scott may or may not have violated the law by carrying an unregistered handgun, but the police had no way to know that when they shot him.

Furthermore, committing a crime that does not threaten the life or well-being of another person is not grounds for the use of deadly force.

- Jim

[davidtx]

http://www.lvrj.com/news/judge-denies-c ... 99494.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Judge denies Costco request to ban protesters

By DOUG MCMURDO
REVIEW-JOURNAL

Comments posted on the social network Website Facebook and its page in memory of Erik Scott have prompted Costco Wholesale Corp. to go to court in an unsuccessful bid to keep protesters away from one of its Las Vegas stores.

[/quote]

Wow, the comments on this article are unexpected.

[Bart]

The reasons keep piling up to never go to a convention in Nevada!