Bersa thunder question

[Lonest4r]

Has anyone else noticed that if the safety on the gun is not fully lowered to the decocking position the hammer will drop if the trigger is pulled, rotating the safety to "off" position. Has anyone experimented at the range to see whether this action will cause a light strike or possibly even fire a chambered round? I understand that any gun will have the possibility of going off if the safety is improperly engaged, but I only wonder out of concern that someone may someday carry their bersa in this condition assuming that the safety is on.

I guess if everyone always followed the proper precautions, like keeping the trigger guard free of foreign objects(including fingers), then it wouldn't be a problem. But there are always those people who think the rules arent important.

[Dan20703]

Can't say I ever noticed it. Could be because I don't use it as a safety. I use it as a decocker only. The gun is a DA/SA so no safety switch is needed. If I am pulling on the trigger at any given time I expect the hammer to fall.

[Embalmo]

My understanding with this model is that any successful trigger pull with a hammer drop will yield a discharge. The safety/decocker on the .380 is a little awkward 'cause you have to rotate it a bit of a distance. I would only be concerned if the lever didn't stay in place in either position. Naturally, don't do any experiments unless the weapon is downrange.

With that said, I use the decocker all the time when I chamber and holster, but I would NEVER under any circumstance use the safety! If you need to stop a threat and the gun doesn't go bang, it could cost you your life. If you trust it to work and it doesn't, someone could lose their life.

Also-Watch the (USELESS) magazine safety. Out of the box, our's would stick with the magazine inserted (you don't want that). We mailed it in for warranty work and she's been tip top for years.


Embalmo

[Crossfire]

The Bersa Thunder is notorious for problems with the safety - mostly with not being able to disengage it.

It is a great little carry gun, especially for the price. We have owned 3 of them.

Just don't rely on the mechanical safety.

[SpEcTeR]

The Bersa Thunder is notorious for problems with the safety - mostly with not being able to disengage it.

It is a great little carry gun, especially for the price. We have owned 3 of them.

Just don't rely on the mechanical safety.

Agreed. The Bersa is notorious for having reliability issues and I would recommend just outright selling and finding something more reliable to carry.

The most common problem I have seen (on about 8-10 Bersa Thunders) is the spring that resets the trigger bar. It first comes off line, then usually breaks or the notch that holds the spring wears out to the point where even a new spring will not hold, essentially making the gun utterly useless and in a self-defense situation as good to you as a light stapler.

They are inexpensive, however, it all comes down to how much your life is worth to you. Your Bersa might save your life or it might not. Are you willing to chance that.

I apologize for getting a bit off topic.

[poppo]

Has anyone else noticed that if the safety on the gun is not fully lowered to the decocking position the hammer will drop if the trigger is pulled, rotating the safety to "off" position.

This sort of does not make sense. The safety lever is also a decocker. So if the hammer does not drop when you flip the lever then that should be a big clue that the safety lever is not fully engaged. In other words, if the hammer is still cocked, pulling the trigger of course will make it go bang. If the hammer is already dropped but the lever is not all of the way down (and the big red dot is staring at you) then yes, you can pull the trigger in DA mode. But if you are pulling the trigger, then the safety should already be off. Basically I don't see the problem as long as the shooter is following standard safety rules. As others have posted, I use the lever for a decocker, and then it stays off. DA is the only safety I need when carrying.

The Bersa is notorious for having reliability issues and I would recommend just outright selling and finding something more reliable to carry.

Are you saying this from experience of just from something you read? One can find problems posted about any gun. I own two Bersas and they have been totally reliable. I carry them and totally trust them.

[Embalmo]

Bersas are amazingly reliable from what I read and experienced. It is always assumed that because they are inexpensive they are somehow inferior. Like the LCP there were probles that have been corrected. Once mine was corrected, it was fixed for good.

From what I've experienced, read on this forum, and others, I would trust a Bersa over Walther. The only compromise is the finish, and I seriously don't care how pretty my daily carry is.

Embalmo

[kragluver]

My wife has a Bersa and likes it. For her, the safety is a bit difficult to operate but I think she's beginning to get used to it. The trouble for her is she tries to use just the pad of her thumb to operate it. You need to take a more aggressive grip on the safety lever as it can be stiff - and its a bit small.

I have a Polish P64 which is very similar to the Bersa - only in 9x18 Mak - the safety works exactly like that on the Bersa. The safety/hammer-drop takes some getting used to for someone used to a 1911. When carrying my P64 (usually in the summer time when in light shorts or other clothing where a 1911 is not so easy to carry), I always carry with the safety on. I've read of several who carry safety off as stated above. One thing you need to remember - on the Walther-copies, the safety also locks the firing pin and prevents it from moving if the pistol is dropped. If you are carrying with the safety off and hammer down, I'd agree that you are as safe from a ND from an inadvertent trigger pull as you would be with any other SA/DA pistol or revolver EXCEPT the firing pin is not locked on the Bersa/PPK/P64.et al. There is a firing pin return spring in this design and the pin is an inertial style firing pin like the 1911, but I've never tested the pistol to see of you could potentially encounter a firing pin strike if you were to drop the gun with the hammer down and safety off. Many have tested the 1911 and proven it is safe as designed (and certainly its doubly safe on the Series 80 1911s). That may be an experiment I need to try with my P64...

Folks who know will tell you the Series 80 features in the 1911 were not needed and Colt only added them at the urging of their liability attorneys. After studying the design in detail, I'd agree. However, the Walther PPK (the original design) and the P64 were designed by the Germans in the late 30s and by the Pole's during the Cold War. I doubt they were too worried about product liability as they were making a firearm for military and police use under a totalitarian society - AND they incorporated the firing pin lock in the safety. That tells me that the design with the safety off may not be drop safe.

I'll keep my safety on when carrying the P64, thank you. All this discussion regarding SA/DA safeties is one of the reasons I like the 1911 so much - its very simple and quick to get into action and put back on safe and yet retains that beautifully light SA trigger.

[SpEcTeR]

The Bersa is notorious for having reliability issues and I would recommend just outright selling and finding something more reliable to carry.

Are you saying this from experience of just from something you read? One can find problems posted about any gun. I own two Bersas and they have been totally reliable. I carry them and totally trust them.

This is from experience. I am an armorer & gunsmith as a side job at a local range and I have fixed over a dozen Bersas just on the past 5mos. I have seen some Bersas run okay, however, I have seen too many incidents (or enough) that I cannot with a clear conscience, be able to recommend them for concealed carry. If yours run great through several thousand rounds...then you have an exception and ultimately to each their own.

It's not about cost, but performance. Glocks, SW M&P, XD, some 1911s are some examples of what guns can & do outperform Bersas. They can handle regular practice sessions, high round counts (thousands to 10K plus) and will feed many types of quality defensive ammo consistently.

I don't consider a gun reliable until I see that it can

[Embalmo]

This really isn't the place for a gun brand war or a caliber war; we all have our favorites and our own experiences. There are excellent (reputable) sites that will yield a consensus based on actual research. I would recommend that over this site and friends and neighbors when deciding the reliability of a carry weapon.

With that said, I say flame on when it comes to Glocks versus 1911's.

Embalmo

[CompVest]

I run several monthly women handgun classes. I have yet to see any issues with Bersas.

[poppo]

If you are carrying with the safety off and hammer down, I'd agree that you are as safe from a ND from an inadvertent trigger pull as you would be with any other SA/DA pistol or revolver EXCEPT the firing pin is not locked on the Bersa/PPK/P64.et al. There is a firing pin return spring in this design and the pin is an inertial style firing pin like the 1911, but I've never tested the pistol to see of you could potentially encounter a firing pin strike if you were to drop the gun with the hammer down and safety off.

This is not entirely true. The older Bersa .380 did have a drop safety that was only enabled if the safety lever was on. All newer Bersa Thunders including the CC model have a plunger based firing pin block. The firing pin is blocked whether the safety lever is on or off UNLESS the trigger is pulled. Only when the trigger is pulled does the block move. So it's perfectly safe to drop it with the safety off and you will not have a discharge.

Here is a picture of the plunger based block removed from the slide. The arrows show where it captures the firing pin.

[poppo]

If yours run great through several thousand rounds...then you have an exception...

The 'exception'?

[powerboatr]

we have easily over 3k rounds through our bersa.
other than a dumb leo racking the slide back with the trigger lock turned to SAFE, and doing some damage, i have never had issue with the safety,

[kragluver]

Here is a picture of the plunger based block removed from the slide. The arrows show where it captures the firing pin.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the great picture. My P64 does not have that plunger. My statement still stands for those who carry their P64s (and I guess early Bersa's) with the safety off. I still suspect it would take a pretty big blow on the longitudinal axis of the gun to make the firing pin overcome the firing pin spring and move far enough forward to strike the primer.