Concealed carry that isn't really all that concealed

[Odin]

You're correct Odin, vests, fanny packs, etc. do announce "gun" to you and me. My apologies for the tone of my post. I assumed you were inferring that it screamed "gun" to all people, when in fact, that is far, far, far from the truth.

40FIVER

Maybe I should have been more clear in stating that, I didn't intend to imply that the generalpublic felt the same way that I do. It's just that those things alert me to the possibility that the wearer is armed, and I always wonder if the felons who have served time and are back out in our societyare also tuned in to those clues. Not all predators make a habut of charging into a scenario like a lion, some are more like coyote.

[ScottDLS]

I've often thought that the fanny packs, camera vests, and belt clips may be obvious give aways for concealed carry.

However when I started carrying, I also started trying to observe people to see if I could spot who else was carrying. I found myself "identifying" a lot of cell phone packers, fashion retrogrades, and people with hankies in their pocket.

I carry a Blackberry for work (I know it screams dork...). It sure looks like a snubbie under my sport jacket. The folks that I usually spot who really are packing are cops, detectives, and Federal LEO's, who don't care that much about whether they "print" or not. The little gold shield lapel pins tend to give away almost as much as the hog's leg bulge under the suit jacket.

I've often thought of wearing a Bianchi or Glock logo fanny pack with a camera, cell phone or other non-prohibited object in a 51% bar, the airport, or maybe...a polling place on election day. Hey, I've got the right to be a fashion loser. Maybe I'll do this experiment and see how long it takes for me to be tackled by an Air Marshal or "Terry Stopped" by the local deputy.

Wish me luck... :-) -Scott in TX

[carlson1]

Remember that the "average" criminal is not very smart to begin with.

[longtooth]

However when I started carrying, I also started trying to observe people to see if I could spot who else was carrying. I found myself "identifying" a lot of cell phone packers, fashion retrogrades, and people with hankies in their pocket.


I've often thought of wearing a Bianchi or Glock logo fanny pack with a camera, cell phone or other non-prohibited object in a 51% bar, the airport, or maybe...a polling place on election day. Hey, I've got the right to be a fashion loser. Maybe I'll do this experiment and see how long it takes for me to be tackled by an Air Marshal or "Terry Stopped" by the local deputy.

Wish me luck... :-) -Scott in TX

Welcome aboard ScottDLS. Glad to have you. My Mother & I both resemble that 1st remark.
When I back pocket carry my 3AT, it is holstered in a thin thin rough side out homemade holster & covered w/ my hankie. Sitting w/ it as I type ready for church.
My mother is 76 and her primary is a K-T-3AT. She pocket carries hers too & covers it w/ a lace hankie w/ the corner sticking out. No one knows but her circle of lady carriers. Three of them. 2 Great Grandmoms & 1 Grandmother. At church I call them my Body Guards.

2nd statement reminded me of a carry fanny pac I saw posted once that had as its logo the Million Mom March. Don't know if it was lagit or not but it was novel.

Welcome to the family.
LT

[DaveT]

Been following this thread with interest, waiting for something......

While Odin has posted what he preceives to be a 'problem' with the options a lot of CHL'ers choose to conceal their weapons, I have yet to read where he offers any alternative solutions that he prefers ?

[badgerw]

I carry all day, every day.

Yesterday I went to the mall to pick my wife up from work. She was running a little late and asked me to wander the mall until she was ready.

I was wearing khaki 5.11 trousers (with grass stains from mowing the lawn), an untucked polo shirt, and casual shoes. Kimber 3" 1911 in a Tucker "Answer" on my right hip and my Colt Mustang Pocketlite in a Ken Null ankle holster on my left leg.

Two interesting observations:

1. Another middle-aged guy was clearly on Yellow. He was sitting on a planter with his back to an escalator. He was scoping EVERY person who walked by. I looked at him, but he didn't make eye contact with me. AFAIK, he didn't make me.

2. I quickly tired of the crowds and noise, so I went outside and sat on a bench at one of the entrances. A group of 5 or 6 young men (late teens - early 20s) walked in. All had the urban hip-hop look: baggy T-shirts and loose pants or sweats. One stood out from the others. Every time he turned, his right hand patted his waistline just to the right of center. Maybe he's making sure his cell phone is still there. Maybe he's checking that the gun he shoved in his pants hasn't fallen down. I dunno, but I locked on him and his buddies until they entered the mall.

Bill

[Venus Pax]

Badger, I see a lot of these teen gang/gang look-alikes at the mall & watch them very closely.
Some are bent on trouble, and some just like that look b/c it is popular.
Now that I have a CHL and know a lot of the concealment options, I notice who is and isn't carrying, but I would have never known before joining this forum.
(Needless to say, I'm not as watchful of the 40- or 50- something male with his family (most typical) than I am with the gang boys or the lone male acting strangely.)

[Odin]

Been following this thread with interest, waiting for something......

While Odin has posted what he preceives to be a 'problem' with the options a lot of CHL'ers choose to conceal their weapons, I have yet to read where he offers any alternative solutions that he prefers ?

I just leave my shirt untucked. I am able to do that at work and I choose to do that on my own time, so it works for me.

I could wear a jacket, but it's rarely cold enough that I want to wear a jacket, and when I do wear a jacket I take it off as soon as I get in the car or inside, so it's not much use for concealment.

I don't have a "problem" with people advertising that they are carrying, I just choose not do advertise myself. Any fanny pack big enough to carry a 1911 and supporting the weight of a fully loaded 1911 (or similar full size weapon) looks conspicuous to me. I'm sure it's just me worrying too much about someone knowing that I'm armed, but caution has never harmed me.

[DaveT]

I don't think any CHL'er ever wants to 'advertise', but options are limited by physical size and shape, weather and surroundings, as well as money for some. Lots of folks can't wear their shirt untucked, so that limits concealment further.

As active CHL'ers, I think we might notice, but as others have said, I doubt if the general public will. I also carry a 3 inch Kimber and am very aware of printing and proper concealment, but I probably worry too much because I am the one carrying it and trying to make sure it is concealed.

I have a variety of holsters to use, each depends on certain dress or carrying conditions because of weather, etc. Like many, I have spent a lot of money over the years to not only be concealed properly, but also to be comfortable. Lots of folks are not willing to spend that kind of money, and still others don't carry all the time. Some only carry when they think they are going into a 'bad area', so they don't spend a lot of time, effort, or money on good concealment equipment.

I fully understand your point of view, Odin, and I am not taking issue with anything you said. I was just wondering if you had any different concealment ideas that the rest of us could learn from. I am always open to suggestions !

[kw5kw]

I could wear a jacket, but it's rarely cold enough that I want to wear a jacket, and when I do wear a jacket I take it off as soon as I get in the car or inside, so it's not much use for concealment.

This is my main concealment option. You see, I find IWB extremely uncomfortable even with a smaller weapon I never would carry IWB. It might center on the fact that I have a size 38 waist and I purchase a size 38 pant, but that is an entirely different issue concerning the wife and her policy of not buying too large in hopes that I will loose some of my spare tire.

I don't have a "problem" with people advertising that they are carrying, I just choose not do advertise myself. Any fanny pack big enough to carry a 1911 and supporting the weight of a fully loaded 1911 (or similar full size weapon) looks conspicuous to me. I'm sure it's just me worrying too much about someone knowing that I'm armed, but caution has never harmed me.

Your concern is your concern, I however don't give it much of a thought. Yes my 511 vest does scream "GUN" to me, and to most anyone else here, but in fact many people who don't have a CHL--for whatever reason--still like to fish and photograph and they wear them. To them they're simply promoting their hobby to when they can't be fishing or taking photos.
Fanny Packs: well they come and go. I have a large one that I wear when I'm doing my radio duties for certain public events. No body ever has screamed gun there at any of them... funny if they did because they'd find a bunch of things in there, batteries, earphone, microphone, antennas &c, but no gun.

But while walking in the mall, I can look at people, middle aged people and I can usually spot the concerned CHLer because he has a blousey shirt, or a "J" clip or a vest or a jacket along with his "Yellow" attitude. Why can I spot them, because I'm looking. The vast majority of the people are in 'white' and could care less about their surroundings.

Russ

[Odin]

I fully understand your point of view, Odin, and I am not taking issue with anything you said. I was just wondering if you had any different concealment ideas that the rest of us could learn from. I am always open to suggestions !

I wish I knew of some "magic" method to conceal a weapon comfortably in all manner of dress, but I have never really found the "perfect" method. I know what works for me, but I'm fortunate enough to be able to dress however I want (and sloppy enough that I don't mind an untucked shirt).

I sometimes use an ankle holster but I consider it a last option because it's tricky to get to in a hurry and requires me to make movements that draw attention to draw the weapon. Not very fast or covert.

OWB holsters under a shirt are my preferred method, with IWB an option sometimes, although I find the OWB infinitely more comfortable.

Does a wrinkly Banana Republic photog vest look any less sloppy than an untucked polo shirt? I don't know, but I don't like vests or jackets so I don't wear them.

I often stick a .38 Spl titanium revolver in my jeans back pocket and the entire pistol disappears except for a tiny portion of the grip, which is easily covered by my shirt tail.

A "belly band" works for jogging, although a "tactical man purse" (fanny pack" would also work if you don't mind a gun bouncing off your junk while you run.

Life is a compromise.

[Roger Howard]

I guess my hawaiian shirt with the bulg from the full sized auto in an OWB screams gun as well?..
I have only had one person notice I was carrying. He was carrying too.
You look because you carry. The sheep don't notice.

[Odin]

I've never worried about the "sheep", I worry about the wolves. Most aren't in tune with these things, but some are. Not only would I prefer to spot them before they spot me, I don't want to be the object of their attention. If my manner of dress says "cop" (or "guy with a gun") then I'm on their radar. It's quite possibly a worry about nothing, but I'd rather blend in because it sets my mind at ease.

Texas has nearly 100,000 felons on parole and nearly a half million felons on probation in the state right now. Every time I go in public I'm in the company of a felon. The recidivism rate for felons in Texas is about 32%. That means 32,000 parolees and 160,000 probationers will likely commit another felony and get caught. Remember, the criminal justice system only counts the criminals who actually get caught, not the ones who get away with it. In other words, I'm surrounded by felons, many of whom will re-offend. I'm not paranoid, but I am aware. A lot of the hardcore felons actualy "train" while in prison, and they have their own version of Condition Yellow where they are on the constant alert for (a) easy prey and (b) those who might get in their way.

I want to avoid looking like either of those things because I'd rather spot the bad guy before the bad guy's attention is drawn to me, in hopes that in the rare chance that I'm present when a violent felon plys his trade that I will have the choice whether or not to engage or act as a good witness. If the bad guy thinks of me as a possible disruption to his plans he may force me to get involved when I would prefer not to get involved.

Like I said, maybe I'm being overly cautious, but feeling like I blend in with the general public gives me an added sense of security. I can always choose to take an assertive attitude if I feel like it will discourage someone from doing something, but I can also disappear into the crowd and observe. If I'm wearing combat boots, tac pants, a photog vest & fanny pack, mirrored shades and a flat top I'm going to be the focus of any bad guy looking to do his thing.

If it works for you, use it. I'm not suggesting that my way is the right way, only that it works for me.

[Roger Howard]

I'm not suggesting that my way is the right way, only that it works for me.

Now were getting somewhere. It's what works for you that counts.

Oh, for the record the types you speak of that practice their trade in prison are normally gang members. As the brother of a felon I can tell you that the majority of prisoners do not practice what they will do when they get out.
Someone who is robbing a store is not going to be as concerned with you as getting the money and getting out. If you do look LEOish they may decide to find an easier target. Remember they don't want to go back.

I do believe in being very aware of your surroundings. As a CHLer you should be on condition yellow at all times. You should be aware that there could be a problem. You brain is your best defense.

Again, do what works for you.

[carlson1]

The sheep don't notice.

This is the very reason many of them become victims.