Hypothetical Situation: At your favorite restaurant

[Oldgringo]

So, it's decided that we'll sit there eating with our off hand while our gun is in our strong hand covered by our napkin?

Once the guy gets his change for the parking meter from the "old lady" running the front and goes out to pay the parking meter, can we put away our guns and use our napkins or must we wait unti he comes back in and is seated?

Just askin...

[chasfm11]

So, it's decided that we'll sit there eating with our off hand while our gun is in our strong hand covered by our napkin?

Once the guy gets his change for the parking meter from the "old lady" running the front and goes out to pay the parking meter, can we put away our guns and use our napkins or must we wait unti he comes back in and is seated?

Just askin...

As one who has no experience in even thinking about these kinds of situations, it would seem that the crux of the problem is in the potential escalation of the situation. If it is a robbery and the BG simply takes the money and leaves, no one's life hangs in the balance. Perhaps the BG's gun isn't loaded or he has no intention of using it but is simply using the power that it gives him to take what he wants.

The scene changes if he uses his gun or even appears that he is going to use the gun. Some of the triggers for that are that he sweeps the patrons with the barrel of the gun rather than just taking the money and leaving. I'm not optimistic that several rounds into the BG are going to be sufficient to keep him from firing his weapon at someone.

I dread the worst case outcome. One of the other patrons tells the police that the BG was going to leave without doing anything but the shots that I fired caused him to return fire and several innocent people are dead as a result. The BG survives, his ambulance chasing lawyer and the families of all of the victims sue me, claiming that the escalation of the problem was all my fault. The BG takes the witness stand and, in tears, tells that jury that he never meant to hurt anyone but he suffered as a child and just needed money for his drugs to take away his pain.

Having said that, I was driving in NC on a rainy night. We were in pretty much bumper to bumper traffic on a two lane road in both directions. My work colleague and I were chatting in our car when suddenly a car slams into the back of the car that is directly across from us, going the opposite direction. I had about a second to look at the face of the driver of the car that caused the accident and I said to my colleague "he is going to run." Sure enough, he puts his car into reverse and then swings it onto the far berm of the road and drives off. There wasn't even a good chance to get a license number. While we waited for the LEO to arrive after making sure the driver of the damaged car wasn't hurt, my colleague asked me how I knew what was going to happen. I told her that I could see it in his eyes. Don't ask me how.

Faced with this hypothetical situation, I would probably trying to study the BG as carefully as possible, assuming that I could see his face. Even if I couldn't, body language can sometimes tell a lot. There are certainly no guarantees. For those of who aren't ever going to be trained in tactical responses, it is the best that we can do, IMHO.

[bdickens]

...As one who has no experience in even thinking about these kinds of situations, it would seem that the crux of the problem is in the potential escalation of the situation. If it is a robbery and the BG simply takes the money and leaves, no one's life hangs in the balance. Perhaps the BG's gun isn't loaded or he has no intention of using it but is simply using the power that it gives him to take what he wants.....

I sure wouldn't wait to find out.

[maximus2161]

well as its been stated in this thread there are so many variables to consider. And no I dont think its stupid to ask because all it takes one members input to make you consider something you hadnt before. I always play the 'What if?" game. Being aware isnt the same as being paranoid. When I go ANY place I try to be aware of what is going on or what might go on. When i read this post I immediately thought of sitting in this Italian restaurant I frequent. My wife and son are usually with me or some times its me and my boy. What would I do? Depends. I can tell you my main focus is to get my family out safe and unharmed.

[Embalmo]

There is a reason that when a CHL carries it is called personal protection, not public protection. It's highly unlikely that if I fail to sneak up on the robber and take him out, everyone in the restaurant will die; just ask the nice Floridian man who got shot doing that exact thing at a Burger King. Maybe I'm a jerk, but in a Luby's situation, my P1 is getting my family and self out the window; now if a few bad guys get between us and the door/window, then I'll try my best to terminate the threat. Naturally if I get a clean shot I will take it, but a clean shot doesn't sound likely in the chaos that would ensue during a robbery.

Embalmo

[Salty1]

Protecting somebody elses money is not something I would even consider doing. Under the initial situation mentioned I would assume that it is being robbed by a junkie who just needs money for another fix and is going to hit and run, he is going to take whatever is handed to him and head out the door. If the person at the register decides to not comply then that is a mistake on their part. If shots rang out then that is another story and still would depend on what is going on, remember that if you shoot somebody it is going to cost you lawers fee's, potentially even more............

[WildBill]

What makes it harder is that one never knows these days if a robber would just shoot the cashier anyway; back in the old days when all they wanted was the money, I wouldn't bother getting involved.

Yeah, those were the good old days.

Whatever the outcome, the decision to shoot or not shoot would be very difficult to live with. If you waited until the BG killed someone, you would wonder if you should have shot sooner. If you didn't wait and killed the BG, you would wonder if he would have just taken the money and left without harming anybody.

As AndyC said, it's not an exciting game.

[Embalmo]

I've never drawn or fired on a (human) threat and it is my goal to maintain both those perfect records.

[Oldgringo]

So, it's decided that we'll sit there eating with our off hand while our gun is in our strong hand covered by our napkin?

Once the guy gets his change for the parking meter from the "old lady" running the front and goes out to pay the parking meter, can we put away our guns and use our napkins or must we wait unti he comes back in and is seated?

Just askin...

OOPS! I reckon he didn't need a gun to ask for parking meter change?

I'm sorry, from where I was sitting, his cell phone looked like a gun. Yes Officer, I'll come along with you. Can someone see that my family gets home? Woe is me.

[lrb111]

I'm with Andy, this is a community service project. According to the diagram the trailing edge of his left ear would be center mass of the brain stem.

The problem with armed robbers if this is his first it wouldn't be his last. If it's not his first then he may fire on the crowd for effect. I would be too close to him to expect that I or loved one might not be hit.
Of course, I could motion to my wife. She would be across the table, and three feet nearer. She would probably stick the barrel of the gun up his rear, and empty her .45. just sayin...

[Saintkingdom]

The problem with armed robbers if this is his first it wouldn't be his last. If it's not his first then he may fire on the crowd for effect. I would be too close to him to expect that I or loved one might not be hit.

right on brother!

if we let them do it once they will do it twice! next time they will probably smile as they pop off a few rounds just for kicks.

[Saintkingdom]

I've never drawn or fired on a (human) threat and it is my goal to maintain both those perfect records.

then why own a gun? why not tazers or pepper spay? they seem to suit you, better yet just softly spout "please don't" in their general direction.

[Saintkingdom]

...if he would have just taken the money and left without harming anybody.

thats not the point.

[Saintkingdom]

Protecting somebody elses money is not something I would even consider doing. Under the initial situation mentioned I would assume that it is being robbed by a junkie who just needs money for another fix and is going to hit and run, he is going to take whatever is handed to him and head out the door. If the person at the register decides to not comply then that is a mistake on their part. If shots rang out then that is another story and still would depend on what is going on, remember that if you shoot somebody it is going to cost you lawers fee's, potentially even more............

oh, its just a junkie. its ok, his life means so much more than ours! please Mr.Junkie man take what you need.

..."If the person at the register decides to not comply then that is a mistake on their part."...
I'm lovin the compassion here!

..."if you shoot somebody it is going to cost you lawers fee's"...
shoot the guy and call me! i'll chip in and call up my buddies who will do the same.