Hotel Stay

[maximus2161]

Ok Im curious on something. I know some hotels post 30.06. I forget what chain but want to say Hilton maybe? Now my question is when you are staying overnight in a hotel cant you still have your handgun with you in your room even if that hotel posts 30.06? I thought I heard that was under the Castle law. So how does 30.06 apply then if that is true? (Now I may have that wrong and if so please help clairfy) If 30.06 is posted at the entrance (I think the Anatole has that in Dallas) how can you legally take your gun to your room if you have a CHL? Even if you dont have a CHL couldnt you keep your handgun in your hotel room? I tried searching this topic but its not working for me so if this has been discussed I apologize.

[d strokes]

IANAL.

One would think that the 30.06 posting supersedes that because you have to go through the entrance (which is posted), then the lobby, hallways, etc. to get to your room.
Since you aren't being forced to stay in that particular hotel, I would have to say that the hotel's private property rights (that allow them to post 30.06) still apply.

Find another hotel, or find a door that isn't posted.

[ELB]

The 30.06 provision only applies to people carrying concealed handguns under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code. In otherwords, on the authority of your license. It doesn't say that guns in general are forbidden. I would suppose that if there are no other signs or you are not otherwise informed that weapons/guns in general are forbidden, then to stay legal you could unload your handgun, put it in your luggage, and take it up to your room.

Could you then load it and still be legal? I think so, but I may be ignorant of provisions that make it illegal. For example, just because you have a CHL, does that automatically mean you are carrying under its authority? I wouldn't think so if there are other legal ways to have a handgun (e.g. MPA for cars).

The SCOTUS now says you have a 2A protected right to have a handgun for self-defense in your home; a CHL is not necessarily required for that (altho both jurisdictions where Heller and McDonald were originated still require some kind of licensing for this) Does this include hotel rooms, RVs, campers, tents?

Texas Penal Code Section 9.32 (i.e. the "Castle Doctine") says your use of deadly force is presumed reasonable if someone "unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment." I think, but do not know for sure, that your hotel room is considered your habitation. Again, I can't point to any legal precedent. But presuming that is the case, does that in fact mean that the loaded handgun (which is only one form of deadly force) you have next to the bed is legal because your use of deadly force is legal (within the limits of that law)? I.e. even you have a CHL, once you blast someone and everyone figures out you have a gun, can you then claim the Castle Doctrine and/or the 2A as authority to have a gun, rather than the CHL (which is rendered illegal by the 30.06 signs?

I guess I gave you more questions than answers, but I always arrange to be armed in my hotel room, however I have to do it. IANAL and all that.

[aceat64]

I think 46.02 makes it clear that you can carry the handgun into the hotel room (at least directly from your car) since the room is equivalent to your house or apartment.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

[maximus2161]

I understand about choosing a new place to stay that isnt posted with 30.06. I would drive away and find a new place to stay. Thats why places like Grapevine Mills Mall dont get my business or any place that posts 30.06.

I was just curious how the law comes into play regarding your overnight stay in a hotel. Since you are staying there but again its still business and they can do what they want. I was just vague on it.

thanks!

[fickman]

I think 46.02 makes it clear that you can carry the handgun into the hotel room (at least directly from your car) since the room is equivalent to your house or apartment.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

[The Annoyed Man]

I agree that a 30.06 sign makes it an offense to carry any concealed handgun into the hotel (which includes your room) whether or not the gun is loaded, and whether or not the gun is concealed on your person, or concealed in a suitcase. What matters is how the arresting officer will interpret it, and my guess is that is how they'll see it if you're carrying a obviously personal defense type of pistol. The law seems to not allow for the loophole of carrying it in your luggage if you have a CHL, unless I'm not reading it correctly. The pistol is still concealed, and it is still in your possession.

Interesting side questions: 1) What if you're traveling with a valuable hunting rifle in a locked case? Does 30.06 apply if you possess a CHL? It's not a handgun. 2) What if you're traveling with an expensive long-barreled .500 S&W magnum revolver (handgun) with a scope mounted for hunting purposes and it is locked in a case?

Here is my personal standard: concealed is concealed. If there was another hotel in town, I would give the other hotel my business. If there isn't, then concealed is concealed. I don't really like the idea of breaking the law, but my principle concern at that point becomes the security of the weapon if I'm not allowed to carry it. If there were available alternatives - for instance, if the hotel provided a safe in which to secure your weapon for CHL holders - then I would probably follow their policy if they were the only hotel in town. But for darn sure I'm not going to leave my gun in the car overnight in a hotel parking lot. That becomes a safety issue.

BTW, I don't think it's the entire Hilton hotel chain that posts "no gun" signs. Last year I stayed in a Hilton in a major city... ...let's just say it was in a neighboring state... ...and they did not have any kind of "no guns" signs at the entrances. And that state has fairly "liberal" signage requirements. A 6" gunbusters decal would constitute a compliant sign in that state.

[bdickens]

Your hotel room is your residence throughout the duration of your stay. They may be able to prohibit you from carrying in the lobby, but they can not prohibit you from carrying in your room.

Artilum may want to go back and re-read the law. 30.06 signs do not have to be posted at every entrance, they only have to be posted "conspicuously."

[denwego]

I'd agree with everyone and say that it's legal to carry directly between your hotel room and your car under §46.02, since a 30.06 sign only applies if you're carrying under the authority of a CHL; still wouldn't be able to wander around the lobby or restaurant, but it would beat leaving it in the car overnight. Since you're not using your CHL, any 30.05 compliant notice would apply, so a gun-buster sign or verbal notification could be enforced. However, trespass is a reactive process in practice: if you see a no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service sign and no one actually tells you to leave when they see you barefooted, you haven't really trespassed in any practical way. Like Annoyed says, if you keep it concealed, you can't defy any orders to leave that are never given to you.

[Purplehood]

I feel that the whole scenario posited is one of those that fall into the grey areas of the law that simply are not defined (or I am just not aware of them).
As it stands now, I make every effort to find a hotel that will accept my business as a CHL holder. That does not mean that I ask them, it means that I make a reasonable effort to look for a 30.06 sign.

[ELB]

If the hotel has a 30.06 sign posted, you can not carry a concealed handgun into that hotel. Mind you, the sign must be posted at all entrances and follow the guidelines set forth in the Penal Code in order to be a valid 30.06 sign. ...

There is a lot of "back and forth" about whether it applies if the gun is unloaded or inside your luggage and so forth. This is the way I look at it... a handgun is a handgun, loaded or not. According to Government code 411.171 a "concealed handgun" is, "a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person." ...

In summary, you can not take a concealed handgun past a valid 30.06 sign and into the building, ...

I agree that a 30.06 sign makes it an offense to carry any concealed handgun into the hotel (which includes your room) whether or not the gun is loaded, and whether or not the gun is concealed on your person, or concealed in a suitcase. ...

So, I am curious about something. Couple or four questions for both of you:

Do you both think that if you have a CHL, the CHL statutes completely define the places you are and are not legal to carry a handgun, concealed or not, on your body or not?

If it does, does that mean those who are not CHL holders (and also not judges, bailffs, LEOs, DAs, assistant DAs, etc) cannot legally have a handgun at all?

In particular, if a non-CHL traveler goes to a hotel that has a 30.06 sign, but no other signs related to guns or weapons, is he legally barred from bringing a gun up to his room? Let's make it an unloaded handgun, locked in his luggage. Or is he legal to do so?

If a traveling Texas peace officer arrives at the hotel, and finds a 30.06 sign, is he barred from legally carrying his handgun, (particularly his concealed backup in the ankle holster) to his room in the hotel? (I think the answer is pretty obvious, but for the sake of illustrating a point, let's answer it).

[Dad24GreatKids]

I feel that the whole scenario posited is one of those that fall into the grey areas of the law that simply are not defined (or I am just not aware of them).
As it stands now, I make every effort to find a hotel that will accept my business as a CHL holder. That does not mean that I ask them, it means that I make a reasonable effort to look for a 30.06 sign.

Once a Parking Lot bill and Campus Carry are passed there are some grey areas that need to be address. I.e. 30.06 notice at some, but not all entraces to a store / mall / etc.

[The Annoyed Man]

Your hotel room is your residence throughout the duration of your stay. They may be able to prohibit you from carrying in the lobby, but they can not prohibit you from carrying in your room.

Artilum may want to go back and re-read the law. 30.06 signs do not have to be posted at every entrance, they only have to be posted "conspicuously."

I'm not arguing your point, but I have some "what about" questions...

If you have a CHL and you carry a gun past a 30.06 sign, is it still a violation if the gun is unloaded and concealed in a suitcase. Is it a violation if the gun is concealed in the suitcase, loaded?

If either of the above is a violation, and the only access to your room is through a posted area, then how can you carry in your room?

Mind you, I've already said what I would do in my previous post.

[C-dub]

Mind you, the sign must be posted at all entrances and follow the guidelines set forth in the Penal Code in order to be a valid 30.06 sign.

Just a little side note. The 30.06 sign does not have to be posted at all entrances to be enforceable. It only has to displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. The statutes does not say that it must be at all entrances. Although, this is probably what Dad24greatkids might be referring to in his post of things that need clearing up.

[C-dub]

Thanks TAM.

I'm too slow tonight.