CHL - gun in my car - "plain view"?

[seamusTX]

The downside of having a loose handgun in a vehicle is losing control of it

Like in the infamous Miami shootout.

Which particular Miami shootout? This one? (There have been too many to keep track of.)

If so, thank you. That event occurred quite a while ago.

- Jim

[boomerang]

Yes. The FBI shhotout that lead (eventually) to the .40 S&W. Among many other lessons, it is an example of handguns loose in vehicles. Along with the Newhall Incident, it's a classic officer survival case study.

[seamusTX]

I am a simple man with simple thoughts:

• In a holster
• In my hand
• In the safe

Pick one.

- Jim

[45 4 life]

Fanny packs and the other soft case's with straps works well just draped over your weak side shoulder while driving. It keeps you firearm in a position like a shoulder holster, and more important, keeps it with you if you a forced to exit quickly.

[CWOOD]

I have a CHL - when I'm in my car, I prefer to remove my paddle holster - it's more comfortable for me - I switch the gun (G36) to an Uncle Mikes IWB model that fits very securely down on the floor between the right hand side of the driver's seat frame and the left hand side of the emergency brake frame - I have a small SUV, a Honda CRV. For someone approaching me from the driver's side of the car, the gun is not visible - if someone approached from the passenger side, I guess that they could see the gun if they were right at the window.

I don't want to start a holster discussion here, I'm just wondering if the gun would be considered to be "in plain view"?

Where do you guys keep your gun, if you're not wearing it concealed when you're in the car?

Thanks!

Since you are not interested in a holster discussion, let me answer your question and offer a simple suggestion. Day or night, if someone can actually see or identify your weapon, with the use of a flashlight or natural light, either with you sitting in the seat or while exiting the vehicle, it is in plain sight and you are in violation. The simple solution is to keep a small terry cloth towel and cover the weapon so that it is not exposed.

All that being said, you have received a lot of good info regarding carry alternatives. I have a Comp-tac IWB and that is where I keep mine. I find it acceptably comfortable. I feel that the safest (for everyone) method is to keep it on my person at all times.

The comments about loose, unsecured, weapons are true. If you have a weapon in a holster or other object that is not permanently and securely attached to your vehicle, as long as everything is going smoothly all is good. But when you have a collision, a carjacking, an illness, there is the likelihood of becoming seperated from the weapon at the most critical moment. This is in addition to the hazards of holstering and reholstering, or if it is time to get out for a potty break or a cold drink and have to make the "leave it for just a second or reholster and take it with me" decision. Additionally, all the reholstering raises the potential for becoming "unconcealed" which is where we started this discussion.

We all have to decide what is right for us, what is safe, what is effective, what is tactically sound. For me, I'll just keep it on me.

One final thought, for most:

CARRYING A HANDGUN ALL DAY LONG IS NOT AN EXERCISE IN COMFORT.

Like so many things, there is a compromise to be made. Carry the biggest weapon you can shoot effectively, that you can carry with sufficiently tolerable level of discomfort and inconvenience so as to ensure you have it with you when you need it...ie. all the time.

Best of luck on your decisions.

[PappaGun]

If an object can be seen from any point where a person has a right to be in a public place, it is in plain view (according to many court rulings). The cops have busted people for things that could be seen from the upper branches of a tree through a window with the blinds partially opened.

It is interseting to me the police would go to this extreme in pursuing a lead.
I understand why they would. Heck, If it can be seen, it can be seen, from any angle.
After all, concealed is concealed right?
Wouldn't it be grand if the police and the courts would interpret 30.06 so literaly.
Heck, if it says 1" letters, then so be it.
If it says it must be written exactly this way, then so be it.
If it says it must be in English and Spanish, then so be it.
I am sorry Mr. AMC Theater manager, but your sign is not right.
I am sorry Mr. CHL to have bothered you.

I dunno, I'm just sayin.

[seamusTX]

No one has ever been convicted of a PC 30.06 violation, to my knowledge.

I also have never seen a fully compliant 30.06 sign. I know of one that I thought was compliant, but the letters turned out to be around 0.7 inches high.

Of course I marched in and informed the manager of their mistake.

- Jim

[PappaGun]

Yes Jim, I understand.

My point is that this literal interpretation should be extended in all aspects.

I'm sorry Mr. Handog. I see you have a valid CHL. I am sorry to have bothered you.
Um, Mrs. I Feared for My Life, this Gentleman has a license to carry the handgun concealed and we have determined that this was an accidental UCW.

Thank you for your concern. Have a nice day ya'all.

I'm just sayin.

[seamusTX]

The law can be used according to the intentions of those who make it and enforce it.

In other words, if they want your sorry butt in the pokey, they can put it there; and they can make getting out cost a lot of money.

You can call me a cynic. I think I'm a realist.

- Jim

[PappaGun]

Yes sir.
I am with you on that.

[Ol Zeke]

The law can be used according to the intentions of those who make it and enforce it.

In other words, if they want your sorry butt in the pokey, they can put it there; and they can make getting out cost a lot of money.

You can call me a cynic. I think I'm a realist.

- Jim

Seems pretty "real" to me!

[AdioSS]

This thread has made me rethink of how well my handgun is concealed in my vehicle. I have an extended cab truck with factory tinted back windows and dark charcoal interior. I have been using a black IWB holster that clips inside the passenger seat's back pocket. My firearm is almost all black. When the pistol is in that holster I can see it, but it does blend in and is secure unless I am in a rollover. I think I will take the extra effort to simply cover the butt with a black washcloth to be sure that it is concealed.

[seamusTX]

I suggest that y'all review the U.S. Supreme Court cases on "plain view": http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/ ... -view.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The court rarely rules in favor of the convicted person in these cases. It's a roll of the dice.

Of course, a misdemeanor weapon violation is not going to get to the U.S. Supreme Court.

- Jim