Had problems at the range today

[baldeagle]

I'm looking for advice from the experienced gun owners. I bought a Sig P226 recently (see http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=34992) and two extra mags. The new mags (factory Mec-Gar 15 round mags) have two more coils in the springs than the old mag (original with the gun), and it was extremely difficult to hand load them with 15 rounds. I cleaned and lubed the gun yesterday. Today I took it to the Garland Shooting Range to try it out. I shot 45 round, 15 from each mag. The gun worked fine except for two things that bothered me. It jammed twice with one of the new mags. (One was much harder than the other to load all fifteen rounds - I think that's the one that had the problem.) I had to drop the mag, clear the breach and then put the round back in the mag and start over. I decided to shoot another 20 rounds through that mag, 10 at a time, to see if would jam with less ammo. It did not. But it did something else that I didn't like. When I fired the last round, the slide did not stay back but returned to the shooting position. It did that both times after firing the 10th round. Each time I pulled the trigger again, not realizing that the mag was empty because the slide was forward.

When I got home I field stripped the gun and removed the grips. I noticed a lot of carbon or dirt in the mechanism of the frame, on both sides; around the decocking lever, the slide catch lever and spring, the trigger mechanism and the ejector. I soaked the frame in Berryman's Engine Degreaser and let it sit for a while. Then I cleaned it thoroughly with Berryman's B12 Cleaner. (Yes, I know these aren't gun cleaners, but I've used them for years and they do an excellent job of cleaning dirt, grease and grime from mechanical parts.) B12 not only cleans but dries without leaving any residue. The looked very clean when I finished.

Once the frame was clean I lubed it with Remington Rem Oil, which both lubes and protects against corrosion.

Should I take the gun out and fire it some more? Or do I need to take it to a gunsmith for repair? If I need to take it to a gunsmith, any recommendations for someone in the north Dallas area?

[driver8]

I have a 226 and it has never jammed. Nothing is more reliable than a Sig. The slide not staying back is almost for sure the mag's fault. I would just get some factory Sig mags and not take the chance with the off brands.

[baldeagle]

I have a 226 and it has never jammed. Nothing is more reliable than a Sig. The slide not staying back is almost for sure the mag's fault. I would just get some factory Sig mags and not take the chance with the off brands.

These are factory mags. I verified that with Sig (by phone) after discovering the difference in spring length. Sig used to make their own magazines but farmed them out to Mec-Gar a few years ago.

I assume you are right that the slide not staying back is the mag's fault, but can you explain the mechanics of it? Perhaps I have a defective mag and need to return it.

[Mike1951]

These are factory mags. I verified that with Sig (by phone) after discovering the difference in spring length. Sig used to make their own magazines but farmed them out to Mec-Gar a few years ago.

I'm glad you were able to confirm this. Mec-Gar is certainly not an "off brand". They are OEM for many brands.

[dicion]

I assume you are write that the slide not staying back is the mag's fault, but can you explain the mechanics of it?

Generally the mag follower (plastic or metal piece below the final round), when it gets to the top of it's travel (eg, as soon as you chamber the last round from the mag), somehow pushes up on the slide release catch from inside the slide. This causes the catch to, well, catch, on the return cycle following the last shot, holding it open. How it does this exactly is different depending on the gun model, and I don't know how Sig does it exactly.

If it's not catching, then for some reason the magazine follower is not properly pressing up on the slide catch, or if it is, the slide catch is too worn to catch. The latter would happen with Every magazine though, so If it's just a problem with one mag, then I'm sure it's the former.

[baldeagle]

So if I move the feeders around, the problem should follow the presumably faulty feeder. I'll have to try that and see what happens.

[baldeagle]

I found the answer, I think. I found this post, http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/ ... /749101723, at the Sig Forum site:

Checks: with the slide off the pistol, lift the slide catch lever; it should be under spring tension and should smartly return to it's rest position when released. (If it doesn't, the slide catch lever spring is broken or missing). Insert an empty magazine and ensure that the follower of the mag lifts the slide catch lever up. With an assembled pistol with slide forward, insert an empty magazine and rack the slide to the rear; the slide should remain locked back.

I checked all three mags. All three push the slide catch lever up properly, but, you can insert the new mags into the pistol without "locking" them in place. They seem to be in place and they won't fall out, but they're not locked in place.

If I push the mag up into the receiver it seems to be in place. The slide catch lever is moved up, but not far enough to lock the slide. If I push the mag with a little more force, there is a clicking sound when the magazine hits the catch stop and the slide catch lever pops up far enough to lock the slide back. So I most likely did not insert the mag all the way into the frame enough to lock it. Next time I go to the range I'll make sure that every mag is properly locked in place.

That may also explain the jamming issue I had with that mag.

[dicion]

I found the answer, I think. I found this post, http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/ ... /749101723, at the Sig Forum site:

Checks: with the slide off the pistol, lift the slide catch lever; it should be under spring tension and should smartly return to it's rest position when released. (If it doesn't, the slide catch lever spring is broken or missing). Insert an empty magazine and ensure that the follower of the mag lifts the slide catch lever up. With an assembled pistol with slide forward, insert an empty magazine and rack the slide to the rear; the slide should remain locked back.

I checked all three mags. All three push the slide catch lever up properly, but, you can insert the new mags into the pistol without "locking" them in place. They seem to be in place and they won't fall out, but they're not locked in place.

If I push the mag up into the receiver it seems to be in place. The slide catch lever is moved up, but not far enough to lock the slide. If I push the mag with a little more force, there is a clicking sound when the magazine hits the catch stop and the slide catch lever pops up far enough to lock the slide back. So I most likely did not insert the mag all the way into the frame enough to lock it. Next time I go to the range I'll make sure that every mag is properly locked in place.

That may also explain the jamming issue I had with that mag.

Glad to see that you most likely found the source of the problem!

Yes, newish mags can be a tight fit, and I have experienced mags seeming like they're all the way in, when they're really not before.

A little more use and they might slide and lock in easier, with less force required

[BrianSW99]

Also, if you insert the full magazine with the slide already locked back it should be much easier to get fully inserted.

Brian

[RPB]

I found the answer, I think. I found this post, http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/ ... /749101723, at the Sig Forum site:

Checks: with the slide off the pistol, lift the slide catch lever; it should be under spring tension and should smartly return to it's rest position when released. (If it doesn't, the slide catch lever spring is broken or missing). Insert an empty magazine and ensure that the follower of the mag lifts the slide catch lever up. With an assembled pistol with slide forward, insert an empty magazine and rack the slide to the rear; the slide should remain locked back.

I checked all three mags. All three push the slide catch lever up properly, but, you can insert the new mags into the pistol without "locking" them in place. They seem to be in place and they won't fall out, but they're not locked in place.

If I push the mag up into the receiver it seems to be in place. The slide catch lever is moved up, but not far enough to lock the slide. If I push the mag with a little more force, there is a clicking sound when the magazine hits the catch stop and the slide catch lever pops up far enough to lock the slide back. So I most likely did not insert the mag all the way into the frame enough to lock it. Next time I go to the range I'll make sure that every mag is properly locked in place.

That may also explain the jamming issue I had with that mag.

Well, just to get a second opinion, if you want to drop it all off at my house with a several hundred rounds of whatever ammo you use, I'll verify that was the issue for you at no charge.

That's what the TAP is for in a TAP RACK BANG ... make sure it clicks. I have a very similar issue with another pistol

[baldeagle]

rpb, if you live in the Dallas area, maybe we can meet at the range, and I'll test your gun(s) while you test mine.

[MoJo]

Ok, here's what I tell people. A pistol is designed to contain an explosion there is nothing a normal human can do to hurt it. Drive the magazine into the gun so that it is fully seated.

Are you sure you aren't riding the slide stop lever? If you are the slide won't lock back.

[RPB]

rpb, if you live in the Dallas area, maybe we can meet at the range, and I'll test your gun(s) while you test mine.

Thanks for the invite, I lived in Richardson (Spring Valley and Coit) and also in East Dallas (near Gaston/Abrams) 1975-1979, but then moved to Pasadena and now real close to Austin Texas. I do need to get back up there and see how it has grown some day, but this is going to be a really busy year for me trying to do all those things I always wanted to do "when I get time" and now that I'm retired, it seems like I have less..

[baldeagle]

Ok, here's what I tell people. A pistol is designed to contain an explosion there is nothing a normal human can do to hurt it. Drive the magazine into the gun so that it is fully seated.

Are you sure you aren't riding the slide stop lever? If you are the slide won't lock back.

Yes, I am sure of that. I think the problem was that the original mag that came with the gun went in real easy, but the new mags seemed to be seated when they weren't. After I noticed the click, when it locks into place, I realized I probably hadn't made sure of that click before beginning another round.