Amish School Shooting

[Venus Pax]

I haven't told a soul at school that I keep my gun in a lifejacket safe in the trunk of my car. Right now, no one has asked, and I haven't told. I don't want them telling me I can't have it in the parking lot.

It's there if I ever need it and can get to it.

[Commander]

Well, today the picture is clearer. He had "dreamed" about molesting again. He started forumulating his plan last week. What happened last week? The Colorado school shooting where the shooter molested the girls. BINGO! a way to live out his dream with little girls. I believe that a mention of possible copycats was posted here last week. This guy planned this out much better than the Colorado shooter did. Board with eyehooks to secure chains to, KY jelly. boards to barricade the doors.

I watched the press conference today and heard PA Gov. Ed Rendell get asked about possible "gun control measures". Rendell, a gun controller himself, made this statement "Even the most adrent gun control advocates would be disingenious to say that addtional gun control laws would have stopped this shooting." He went on to say that there was nothing in this guys past that indicated any problem, no criminial history,e tc. ...the 9mm was purchased legally. He said there is not way to stop someone who is intent on getting killed from committing such an act....

[KBCraig]

Well, today the picture is clearer. He had "dreamed" about molesting again. He started forumulating his plan last week. What happened last week? The Colorado school shooting where the shooter molested the girls.

He started buying his supplies the day before the Colorado incident. I think it's clear he was already planning this, but it's likely that Colorado spurred him to go ahead and act quickly.

I watched the press conference today and heard PA Gov. Ed Rendell get asked about possible "gun control measures". Rendell, a gun controller himself, made this statement "Even the most adrent gun control advocates would be disingenious to say that addtional gun control laws would have stopped this shooting." He went on to say that there was nothing in this guys past that indicated any problem, no criminial history,e tc. ...the 9mm was purchased legally. He said there is not way to stop someone who is intent on getting killed from committing such an act....

That's pretty amazing, coming from Rendell. It almost sounds like... common sense!

Kevin

[Kyle Brown]

Every day I go to school and do my best to educate and lead the students to a better life. I care for them, but if something happens and I need to protect those children I have no tools to do so. I am not permitted to carry my gun or have it in my car. Just last week an Assistant Principal confronted me about the clip knife I carry in my pocket. I would gladly take traing classes in order to carry at school. Just give me the freedom to protect those that I am employed to educate and care for.

This sounds odd until you consider where you live. The "school officials" in Bell and Coryell Counties certainly know how to redefine "the law" to say the least.

Do you have a CHL? How were you given notice to not have your gun in your car? Do they tell parents/visitors who have a CHL that guns are not allowed in the parking lot? If so, how are they given "notice?"

Sorry for so many questions. I lived in the area several years ago and was constantly amazed by the lattitude taken by school officials and some LEOs.

[CoveRuger]

Our employee handbook restrict employees from having guns, knives, and a bunch of other things on campus. This included in our vehicles. There is even a statement that our offices, persons, and vehicles may be searched if suspected of having restricted items. These rules do not apply to the general public.

I'm sure the administration feels we are safe having two armed police officers on campus. With a student population that is 80% military and a school that has been in the news many times in many countries, I'm sure we aren't a terrorist target either.

[The Marshal]

CoveRuger,

On the Dallas Talk Radio yesterday morning, I heard a guy that has a business training School Staff on protection measures to prevent such an event. He mentioned that most Faculty put their trust in the lone security guard, or the metal detectors. His point was once the Perp was past those, then what?
Sadly, he mentioned that he is turned away more often then not. Even told that the purchase of new football equipment was more important at the time. Imagine that? Your kid could be killed tomorrow at school, but at least the team will have good protection from the visiting team at homecoming.

So stupid its funny Dept: This safety guy mentioned about the UK's newest challenge -- carving knives!
Yessir, it seems that since you can't have a gun, more crimes are being committed with carving knives. You know, not only is it great for the turkey, but you can actually *kill* someone with a blade that long.
So, there is a move to *restrict* the owning of said knives.

Next on the list: Knitting needles, metal rulers, and drywall saws.

Keep in mind, this is all coming from the people that think every product/service/event must come with a warning label or two stuck on it.

~Bill

[Diode]

CoveRuger,


So stupid its funny Dept: This safety guy mentioned about the UK's newest challenge -- carving knives!
Yessir, it seems that since you can't have a gun, more crimes are being committed with carving knives. You know, not only is it great for the turkey, but you can actually *kill* someone with a blade that long.
So, there is a move to *restrict* the owning of said knives.

~Bill

What do you figure? England will be back in the dark ages by 2010? I guess they can eat their turkey's with their hands..... This almost sounds liek a Monty Python Movie.
mij

[stevie_d_64]

Ok guys and gals...

Don't slay me yet, because I am having mixed feelings (if you are ever allowed to have feelings, this is the time) about institutionalizing our public schools any more than they already are...

By formulating and implementing policy into our public schools in regards to arming adults who's primary job is to "teach" or administer a school I believe is a bad idea...

Its just a gut feeling I have, and one that I believe is based upon some experience...And we all have the same kind of experience when it comes to how much we all hear about how tough it is anyway to be a teacher...

That job is a calling, not a paycheck...And when a teacher, either by need or ordered to do so is tasked with a responsibility like this, which is above and beyond what they trained to do...I do not believe it will be effective enough...

If there was an equivalent situation, I would compare this to the "surface" expectations that the non-armed public expects if we were to have the option to open carry in this state...I don't want to get into a debate about that, I just want to illustrate what very well could happen if we arm teachers and others in the education system...This is honestly the only downside I see to the implementation, either in schools or for any one of us...

They (public) think that if you have a gun, you are the law...They will expect you to intervene at every instance of impropriatus behavior, because you do posess the instrument of intimidation...

I think its that simple, the kids and others who work with them will know (there's no way to get around it if they try this plan) who packs, and who doesn't...

Expectations will be high, and the results will not meet that expectation...

Now that I have gotten some of my "negative nancy" issues out of the way, I'll flip over and tell you why I think it might be a good idea...

Sure, we'll have some very good people who will be on hand to defend the kids and others in the school...And I doubt those schools will ever be hit by this opportunistic type of murderous behavior, by anyone...

But you have to recall why these people (criminals) do this at places they "know" will have little or no resistance?

We all know why, and since the "general" knowledge of our citizens is to know whats going on in situations like this, you know that a person who is committed to acts liek this is not going to go where they believe they will fail...They are going to seek out the places they know will be the path of least resistance...

I feel that if we do implement arming of schools staffs around the country, that there will be places that this will not be very likely to happen...

Yet there will always be large pockets of our country where it will always be a threat, because they will not, or will not be allowed to do this...

And thats where we'll hear about another incident when it does occur...

I hate to be so negative, its not in my nature to be this way...

And if I had a solution or idea I would certainly throw it out there...

But this issue escapes me for some reason...

A deep-seeded political philosophy I have is that I feel it is extremely difficult to legislate human/social behavior, there will always be a work around that laws cannot keep up with, much less for those with ill intent will follow in the first place...

This problem is not IN the schools at first glance, it IS though outside right now, and its waiting for the right moment to come in again...

And unfortunately, no amount of policy, or ammo can stop a determined, premeditated person(s) from doing it again...

Don't get me wrong...I'm not a defeatist, I'm just trying to wrap around an idea that I am not totally onboard with yet...

[Commander]

Our employee handbook restrict employees from having guns, knives, and a bunch of other things on campus. This included in our vehicles. There is even a statement that our offices, persons, and vehicles may be searched if suspected of having restricted items. These rules do not apply to the general public.

Its somewhat surprising to find such a rule in Killeen as it was the scene of the massacre at Luby's.

[TxBlonde]

This is why I will not be a teacher, it may be calling but to much drama to deal with for the little amount of money they get.

Especially with the violence in the schools now.

It does not matter how many metal detectors you have and security guards. If someone wants to hurt the staff or children do you think that is going to stop them? NO

An item does not have to be metal to cause harm. Pencils, Pens, Sticks, tooth picks, eye glasses and probably many more items can be used against someone. I have probably missed alot.

I would like to know that the teacher is willing to protect my children in the same manner I do.

Try to harm a child around me and that person WILL regret it.
I do not mean spanking I mean physical bodily harm.

The teachers and staff are there to teach but also to protect my children,this is for public or private, I send my children to school everyday with the mind set that my children are safe. Unless a Natural Disaster happens.

I would take a bullet for any child and that is they it should be.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When I was in high school they liked lighting the bathrooms on fire......

[stevie_d_64]

This is why I will not be a teacher, it may be calling but to much drama to deal with for the little amount of money they get.

My wife is finishing up her classes to get her certificate to teach in Texas...

Especially with the violence in the schools now.

After a short discussion this morning, she's ready for it...She has this gift...shhhhhhh...

I would like to know that the teacher is willing to protect my children in the same manner I do.

See above...

I would take a bullet for any child and that is they it should be.

Sure, that is a commendable and laudable stance...But isn't it better to give, than to receive???

I can tell you she won't be teaching in the Houston area...

[TxBlonde]

Yes it is better to give then recieve but I trust them with my children. I am glad your wife is going to be a teacher but I remember when it was alot better to be a teacher then it is now.

If we cussed at a teacher, down the hall to the principal we went to get a couple of swats on the rear with a paddle that had holes in it.

it is not like that now a days. They get to the office get in trouble and the next day they are at the school with a gun ready to shoot people over it.

[Venus Pax]

TxBlonde,
It isn't necessarily like that in public schools. Yes, a few students are like that, but most aren't.

I wouldn't want to be REQUIRED to carry a gun, but I feel that I have the right to do so, and that the right is being denied.
I have proven by my past record and by going through the hoops to obtain my CHL that I have good character and can handle a pistol. There is no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to carry. It's a lot quicker for me to shoot a freak once he starts messing w/ my students than for me to have to go all the way out to my car to get my gun, fight to get back in, then shoot someone after he has terrorized and possibly murdered them.

[TxBlonde]

I am not saying they are....But I am the type that will think the worst then if it doesn't happen it is cool, but if it does I will try to be prepared.

I guess you are right I want to be a lawyer and I probably take as much a chance getting shot in there as a teacher does in school...

[stevie_d_64]

Yes it is better to give then recieve but I trust them with my children. I am glad your wife is going to be a teacher but I remember when it was alot better to be a teacher then it is now.

If we cussed at a teacher, down the hall to the principal we went to get a couple of swats on the rear with a paddle that had holes in it.

it is not like that now a days. They get to the office get in trouble and the next day they are at the school with a gun ready to shoot people over it.

You betcha I remember...And you know what...With a few exceptions with some on this forum, most would say I am a better person for all the corrections I received over my years in public education...

One of these days we may see a shift in the correctional policies in our public schools...I really hope so...

Its the litigious nature of our society which does not allow us to correct issues and problems before they become real problems down the road...

If I can admit to getting my rear-end swatted more times than I care to remember for all the stupid stuff I did in school, and knowing how I turned out as an adult...How can anyone say that this type of correctional method can't continue to work today???

I never, ever had feelings of revenge or violent tendencies towards any teacher or principal who administered this punishment...I was more shameful for what I perceived as ridicule from my classmates than anything, and you knew not to retaliate towards them as well for it...

Its not going to happen over night...And the results will take years...

But I think it should be widely accepted and administered, more than just scooping them up and sending them to an "alternative" school...

This is where we need to turn this around folks!