Amish School Shooting

[Mithras61]

I also heard (for those who think the police can help) that is was 9 minutes between when the call was placed to 911 and when the police arrived at the scene.

In this particular case, the gunman didn't start shooting until after the police arrived, but the fact is that the gunman had these people for 9 minutes before there was any police response at the scene.

9 minutes.

How many people can you shoot and kill in 9 minutes? Especially children who are tied up & unable to fight back?

No, the answer isn't more police. I respect the police and all, but as the old saying goes, they're never there when you need 'em. As Jeff Cooper pointed out, who is always there when you need someone to defend you?

I keep saying we need to allow people to carry in school. I don't care if it's teachers, janitors, administrative staff or qualified parents. The only way we can stop this sort of thing is to have people at the schools who are willing to do what it takes to stop it.

It's either that or make our schools into prisons with metal detectors & bars on the windows and then make everyone wear bullet-proof full body armor (as if there really is any such thing!).

[TxBlonde]

This is very sad. I THINK WE AS AMERICA NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHY THIS HAPPENING. It is not because of us gun owners. It is because the moral values of this nation has a whole has gone to hell in a handbag. I remember commericals as a child if you find a gun don't touch it and and go tell an adult. I do not see those commericals anymore. We have gun free Zones. So now all they are doing is going into the school shooting people and shooting themselves. All the gun free zones is doing keeping people that could defend themselves from being able to.

[TxBlonde]

A list of some fatal shootings at U.S. schools in recent years:


• Oct. 2, 2006: A gunman took about a dozen girls hostage, killing at least three of them, at a one-room Amish schoolhouse in Pennsylvania's Lancaster County, police said. The shooter was among the dead, and a number of people were injured.

• Sept. 29, 2006: 15-year-old Eric Hainstock brought two guns to a school in rural Cazenovia, Wis., and fatally shot the principal, a day after the principal gave him a disciplinary warning for having tobacco on school grounds, police said.

• Sept. 27, 2006: Duane Morrison, 53, took six girls hostage at Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colo. Morrison, sexually assaulting them and using them as human shields for hours before fatally shooting one girl and killing himself.

• Aug. 24, 2006: Christopher Williams, 27, went to an elementary school in Essex, Vermont, looking for his ex-girlfriend, a teacher. He couldn't find her and fatally shot one teacher and wounded another, police said. Williams also killed his ex-girlfriend's mother, according to authorities. He shot himself twice in the head after the rampage and was arrested.

• March 21, 2005: Sixteen-year-old Jeff Weise shot and killed five schoolmates, a teacher and an unarmed guard at a high school on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota before taking his own life. Weise had earlier killed his grandfather and his grandfather's companion.

• Nov. 22, 2004: Sixteen-year-old Desmond Keels is accused of fatally shooting one student and wounding three others outside Strawberry Mansion High in Philadelphia. The attack apparently was over a $50 debt in a rap contest. Keels is set to stand trial on murder charges later this month.

* Sept. 24, 2003: John Jason McLaughlin awaits trial in the shooting deaths of Aaron Rollins, 17, and Seth Bartell, 14, who were fellow students at Rocori High School in Cold Spring, Minn. McLaughlin was 15 at the time of the shooting.

• April 24, 2003: 14-year-old James Sheets shot and killed the principal in the crowded cafeteria of a junior high school in south-central Pennsylvania, before killing himself.

* March 5, 2001: Charles "Andy" Williams, 15, killed two fellow students and wounded 13 others at Santana High School in Santee, Calif. Williams was sentenced to 50-years-to-life in prison.

• May 26, 2000: 13-year-old Nathaniel Brazill killed his English teacher on the last day of classes in Lake Worth, Fla., after the teacher refused to let him talk with two girls in his classroom. He was convicted of second-degree murder and is serving a 28-year sentence.

* Feb. 29, 2000: A 6-year-old boy shot and killed a 6-year-old classmate at Buell Elementary School in Mount Morris Township, Mich. Because of his age, the boy was not charged.

* Nov. 19, 1999: A 13-year-old girl was shot in the head in school in Deming, N.M., and died the next day. A 12-year-old boy pleaded guilty and was sentenced to at least two years in juvenile prison.

• April 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.

• May 21, 1998: Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when a teenage boy opened fire at a high school in Springfield, Ore., after killing his parents. Kip Kinkel, 17, was sentenced to nearly 112 years in prison.

• May 19, 1998: Three days before his graduation, an honor student opened fire at a high school in Fayetteville, Tenn., killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend. Jacob Davis, 18, was sentenced to life in prison.

* April 24, 1998: Andrew Wurst, 15, opened fire at an eighth-grade dance in Edinboro, Penn., killing a science teacher. The boy pleaded guilty to third-degree murder and other charges and is serving 30 to 60 years in prison.

• March 24, 1998: Two boys, ages 11 and 13, fired on their Jonesboro, Ark., middle school from nearby woods, killing four girls and a teacher and wounding 10 others. Both boys were later convicted of murder and can be held until age 21.

• Dec. 1, 1997: Three students were killed and five wounded at a high school in West Paducah, Ky. Michael Carneal, then 14, later pleaded guilty but mentally ill to murder and is serving life in prison.

• Oct. 1, 1997: Sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham of Pearl, Miss., fatally shot two students and wounded seven others after stabbing his mother to death. He was sentenced the following year to three life sentences.

* Feb. 19, 1997: A 16-year-old boy took a shotgun and a bag of shells to school in Bethel, Alaska, and killed the principal and a student and wounded two others. Evan Ramsey is serving a 210-year sentence.

I used Flint's list and found a few more. The ones I added have stars.

[stevie_d_64]

I heard and saw this morning on FoxNews, the new girl on the morning show state unequivically on live TV...

"If your going to commit suicide, just do it! Don;t take others with you."

(they are sure going to have a meeting over that comment...)

And the comments regarding to the speculation as to why he did this???

Why did he let go all of the adults, male children???

Because he knew that little girls would cause him the least problems...

To which this was plain ole pure premeditated evil...

It'll never end folks...

[dws1117]

This is very sad. I THINK WE AS AMERICA NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHY THIS HAPPENING. It is not because of us gun owners. It is because the moral values of this nation has a whole has gone to hell in a handbag. I remember commericals as a child if you find a gun don't touch it and and go tell an adult. I do not see those commericals anymore. We have gun free Zones. So now all they are doing is going into the school shooting people and shooting themselves. All the gun free zones is doing keeping people that could defend themselves from being able to.

Well said.

It seems that as a society we are willing to blame an object instead of holding people accountable for thier actions.

This and all of the others are truly sad. Can events such as this really be prevented? I don't beleive it's possible.

[GlockenHammer]

I hear on the news the steps Houston schools are taking for increased security...hall monitors and portable metal detectors. This is great for catching kids dealing drugs or bringing weapons to school "just in case," but it does nothing for the person already dedicated to doing violence.

No, for that person, there is no law that will stop them. No hall monitor calling in on a radio will stop it. The metal detector will just go ding, ding, ding.

The only thing that will stop that person is a bullet. That puts guns in schools in the hands of good people that know how to use them.

As I mentioned in another thread some time ago, I would be willing to go to special training and get special certification to carry my firearm in a school (or plane or post office). I'd do it at my expense and wouldn't charge the taxpayers for it. I'd go back for requalifications. Whatever it takes. There are a lot of good people that have skill at arms that would be willing to help.

A law allowing CHLers to carry in schools certainly cannot increase the likelihood of these actions as the actors are not hindered by their actions being illegal. However, this can act as a deterrent to some actors that decide against it. And maybe, just maybe, a bullet from a good guy can save the lives of our most precious.

[kw5kw]

I heard on the radio earlier that this guy in PA was upset with God for allowing his child to die 9 years ago, and just now decided to do something about it.

I don't know if he was Amish or not, but he really needed to read Job.

Roberts left behind notes for his wife and three children that also talked about his anguish over the loss of the couple's newborn daughter, Elise, in 1997, Miller said.

"The note that he left for his wife talks about the good memories together, the tragedy with Elise, it focuses on his life being changed forever ... over the loss of Elise, his hatred toward himself, his hatred towards God as a result of that event, and he alludes to this other reason for this anger but he can't discuss it with her and it happened 20 years ago," Miller said.

Russ

*edited to add news story excerpt*

[kw5kw]

I also agree that CHL's in schools will be a bigger deterrant than anything else.

A few of these bullies being taken down before they can do others harm, and maybe, just maybe we'll be able to subdue some of these senseless acts of violence.

Russ

[jbirds1210]

The only thing that will stop that person is a bullet. That puts guns in schools in the hands of good people that know how to use them.

I completely agree. Most of the teachers I have met are strong, confident, and completely capable of protecting their students with some training...they just need the tools. This reminds me of a gas station sign I saw many years ago:
"armed guard in cooler three nights a week, pick your night"
Jason

[stevie_d_64]

...he really needed to read Job.

You said it!

Just when you think it couldn't get worse...Read that book!

Roberts left behind notes for his wife and three children that also talked about his anguish over the loss of the couple's newborn daughter, Elise, in 1997, Miller said.

"The note that he left for his wife talks about the good memories together, the tragedy with Elise, it focuses on his life being changed forever ... over the loss of Elise, his hatred toward himself, his hatred towards God as a result of that event, and he alludes to this other reason for this anger but he can't discuss it with her and it happened 20 years ago," Miller said.

[Scott Murray]

Most of us agree CHL should be permitted in the schools. But why not take it one step further?

Most teachers don't make enough money, but they have at least some time available in the summer. Why not start a program similar to the Federal Flight Deck Officers (but locally controlled), where teachers can take a few weeks training during the summer? They'd be taught the law, how to shoot, and how to care for a pistol. They'd be taught some level of action shooting, beyond what it takes to get a CHL. Then they could deputized. But in school they'd carry concealed. Most people wouldn't know who they were. To provide an incentive to do this, they'd be paid a bonus, perhaps 5% more than their base salary. To encourage regular practice, the school might want to provide them with a certain amount of free ammo each month.

Besides the obvious improvement in security, there might eventually be some improvement in the prevailing attitude of teachers about firearms. This might end up being conveyed to their students, which would improve the attitude of society as a whole.

Even the Amish could participate, if they could get past their pacificism. They could be issued cap and ball revolvers.

[KBCraig]

...he really needed to read Job.

You said it!

Just when you think it couldn't get worse...Read that book!

Whenever Job comes up, I feel obliged to point out that while Job loved God, he didn't understand him. I often see Christians going through a hard time who will quote Job: "Though He slay me, I will serve Him!"

Trouble is, God wasn't causing Job's troubles. Satan was. If you swear to serve the one who's piling the troubles on, you're serving the wrong one!

Kevin

[graysoncountyffl]

Most of us agree CHL should be permitted in the schools. But why not take it one step further?

Most teachers don't make enough money, but they have at least some time available in the summer. Why not start a program similar to the Federal Flight Deck Officers (but locally controlled), where teachers can take a few weeks training during the summer? They'd be taught the law, how to shoot, and how to care for a pistol. They'd be taught some level of action shooting, beyond what it takes to get a CHL. Then they could deputized. But in school they'd carry concealed. Most people wouldn't know who they were. To provide an incentive to do this, they'd be paid a bonus, perhaps 5% more than their base salary. To encourage regular practice, the school might want to provide them with a certain amount of free ammo each month.

Great idea.

I would sign up.

[CoveRuger]

Every day I go to school and do my best to educate and lead the students to a better life. I care for them, but if something happens and I need to protect those children I have no tools to do so. I am not permitted to carry my gun or have it in my car. Just last week an Assistant Principal confronted me about the clip knife I carry in my pocket. I would gladly take traing classes in order to carry at school. Just give me the freedom to protect those that I am employed to educate and care for.

[wrt45]

Just read this from an article in the updated edition of the Lubbock paper:

Roberts, from the nearby town of Bart, was not Amish and did not appear to have anything against the Amish, Miller said. He said Roberts was bent on killing girls and apparently figured he could succeed at the serene schoolhouse.

If that doesn't say an obvious truth I don't know what would...........

Now if people can just realize how true it is..........

http://ap.lubbockonline.com/pstories/20 ... 9119.shtml