Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

[RPB]

Thanks Rex
Are his daughters single, and what do they carry? (I need to find a date that carrys compatable magazines with mine)
(just kidding)

[Rex B]

From the looks of his picture, I suspect his kids have grown kids of their own.
Which puts them in my age bracket, now that I think on it

[VoiceofReason]

In order to meet the requirements of 30.06, the sign must exactly meet the statutory specifications. If the sign is only in English, then it doesn't the requirements of 30.06 and should not be enforceable. Unlike civil statutes, penal statutes are interpreted far more narrowly, since life and liberty are at stake.

I am not aware of a case on this issue, but I will do some research. This is another situation where a LEO probably wouldn't make the arrest, if he/she were educated on the requirements of a 30.06 sign, and a reasonable DA would not accept charges. However, if a CHL was arrested for crossing such a sign and the DA accepted the charges, then the CHL would have to pay the tab to go to trial, and if found guilty, see if the appellate courts agree with my analysis.

As you can tell from several of my posts, I never suggest that anyone venture into uncharted waters, when it comes to testing the parameters of relatively new statutes. As a trial attorney, I love to be in court! I'll fight to the last drop of blood, but I am always aware that it's my clients' blood.

I wouldn't hesitate to cross a sign like you describe, but that's my decision, not legal advice to non-attorneys.

Regards,
Chas.

Charles,
I have been browsing this forum and I appreciate the work you have put into this and other CHL issues. I am sure everyone else on these boards do too. I wish there was some way I could assist. The only way CHL holders can maintain our rights is to work together as a group to fight for our rights.

[puma guy]

In order to meet the requirements of 30.06, the sign must exactly meet the statutory specifications. If the sign is only in English, then it doesn't the requirements of 30.06 and should not be enforceable. Unlike civil statutes, penal statutes are interpreted far more narrowly, since life and liberty are at stake.

I am not aware of a case on this issue, but I will do some research. This is another situation where a LEO probably wouldn't make the arrest, if he/she were educated on the requirements of a 30.06 sign, and a reasonable DA would not accept charges. However, if a CHL was arrested for crossing such a sign and the DA accepted the charges, then the CHL would have to pay the tab to go to trial, and if found guilty, see if the appellate courts agree with my analysis.

As you can tell from several of my posts, I never suggest that anyone venture into uncharted waters, when it comes to testing the parameters of relatively new statutes. As a trial attorney, I love to be in court! I'll fight to the last drop of blood, but I am always aware that it's my clients' blood.

I wouldn't hesitate to cross a sign like you describe, but that's my decision, not legal advice to non-attorneys.

Regards,
Chas.

Charles,
I have been browsing this forum and I appreciate the work you have put into this and other CHL issues. I am sure everyone else on these boards do too. I wish there was some way I could assist. The only way CHL holders can maintain our rights is to work together as a group to fight for our rights.

I'm sure this has been posted before, but if not..... Went to visit our daughter and latest grand baby at Baylor Medical Center, Dallas. I had called our daughter's father-in-law( he's CHL, too) but he didn't know if they were posted. I found the Gaston entrance had a 30.06 in English and Spanish in white sticky ltters on clear glass to the right of the door. It was too dark to take a phone cam picture, but I measured the letters. The sign was in upper and lower case letters with capitalization rules followed. The lower case letters looked a little small so I took out my handy Stanley 3' measuring tape and voila! they were only 3/4" tall. I didn't feel like pushing my luck, so I took my CC back to the truck. The hospital is not in a real good area of town and I was a little uncomfortable being naked, especially when we left at night after hours. I assume I could beat the rap with a lawyer but here's just another reason to end confusion and get OC passed in Texas. BTW this was grand daughter number 5 for us and baby number three for our daughter who also has twin girls age 2 1/2 Averie Joy was born Thursday May 6 10:43AM

[Smokewagon]

Sec. 8.03.003 Concealed handguns on city property
(a) The city administrator or his designee is hereby authorized and directed to implement the applicable provisions of this section including posting of premises and notification in the official newspaper. (Ordinance 546, secs. 1, 2, adopted 3/12/96)

(b) It shall be an offence for any person, except a certified fulltime, paid, peace officer or other persons authorized by the chief of police, to enter or attempt to enter upon any city-owned or city-leased property while in the possession of a concealed handgun. (Ordinance 708 adopted 4/8/08)

Does this not violate preemption in the State of Texas? I'm still confused on what a city may or may not regulate. There is a municipal court located in the city hall, and I understand that in part. But the dump grounds, municipal airport, parks, senior citizens center, library, cemetery, golf course, etc. etc. etc. Geez......

[The Annoyed Man]

Sec. 8.03.003 Concealed handguns on city property
(a) The city administrator or his designee is hereby authorized and directed to implement the applicable provisions of this section including posting of premises and notification in the official newspaper. (Ordinance 546, secs. 1, 2, adopted 3/12/96)

(b) It shall be an offence for any person, except a certified fulltime, paid, peace officer or other persons authorized by the chief of police, to enter or attempt to enter upon any city-owned or city-leased property while in the possession of a concealed handgun. (Ordinance 708 adopted 4/8/08)

Does this not violate preemption in the State of Texas? I'm still confused on what a city may or may not regulate. There is a municipal court located in the city hall, and I understand that in part. But the dump grounds, municipal airport, parks, senior citizens center, library, cemetery, golf course, etc. etc. etc. Geez......

Sounds to me like a violation of Preemption. Who'll step up to be the test case?

[seamusTX]

There is not and probably never will be a test case.

Someone careless enough to come to the attention of the authorities would be arrested. Charges would be dropped.

- Jim

[RPB]

There is not and probably never will be a test case.

Someone careless enough to come to the attention of the authorities would be arrested. Charges would be dropped.

- Jim

... unless someone just gets it "fixed" by pointing it out to the City Attorney and he/she recommends that City Council modify/amend the language of the Ordinance to make it compliant with Texas law.... then it becomes a non-issue for CHLs, and MPA/Motorist Protection Act people too. (The broader MPA population it affects ... Library parking lot with a concealed gun in the car ...)

Sec. 8.03.003 Concealed handguns on city property
(a) The city administrator or his designee is hereby authorized and directed to implement the applicable provisions of this section including posting of premises and notification in the official newspaper. (Ordinance 546, secs. 1, 2, adopted 3/
12/96)
(b) It shall be an offence for any person, except a certified fulltime, paid, peace officer or other persons authorized by the chief of police, (change "chief of police" to LAW) to enter or attempt to enter upon any city-owned or city-leased property while in the possession of a concealed handgun. (Ordinance 708 adopted 4/8/08)

----------


(b) It shall be an offence for any person, except a certified fulltime, paid, peace officer or other persons authorized by LAW to enter or attempt to enter upon any city-owned or city-leased property while in the possession of a concealed handgun. (Ordinance 708 adopted 4/8/08; amended xx/xx/2010)

Otherwise, they might be keeping out others authorized in Texas law which are not necessarily PAID/FULL TIME Texas Peace officers ... (without looking at the list, I'll just say U.S. Treasury agents/Park Rangers/Personal Protection Officers as an example which may or may not be accurate? )
as well as part time or reserve certified Texas peace officers ..
and others... (Motorist Protection Act / City facility parking lots ...)

[ELB]

Yesterday I went to the San Antonio Airport for the first time in a long while; specifically I went to Terminal 2, baggage level. I was surprised to see on the doors a 30.06 posting. I have traveled several times thru SAT, (probably through Terminal 1 for the most part) and had never seen these before. SAT is of course operated by the city of San Antonion; also, the signs' wording were too small.

I didn't dally at the door long enought to make sure the verbiage was 100% correct, but it seemed to start of with the correct terminology ("pursuant to..." etc), and it appeared in both English and Spanish. It was headed with a gunbuster sign, and the phrase, "WEAPONS PROHIBITED," which was in letters that were probably 1" tall, but the English text underneath was very small. The Spanish text was in letters larger than the English text, but still appeared to be less than 1" tall.

The signage was part of a clear decal with red and blue letters pasted on the door. The decal also had prohibitions against pets and smoking. They appeared on all the doors facing the outside, but I didn't go to every door.

[ELB]

Question for Mr. Cotton,

While perusing the thread to see if anyone else had ID'd San Antonio Airport for 30.06 signs, I ran across the below post. This was in reference to the Bexar County Tax Assessor trying to ban CHL carry and metal detectors and such. Did anything ever come of this?

So, can someone educate me as to the proper office to contact with regards to these issues for city and county owned property? I'm not looking for names, but general titles, like "City Attorney" or "County Sherrif" or something like that.

Thanks in advance!

I'll send an open records request to Bexar County. This should prove interesting.

Chas.

[JDJ]

Im sorry if this is an imposition but I know that there is a thread with pics of the legal 30.06 and the 51% sign but I can't find them anywhere.
Will someone please post a link to these?

[Pawpaw]

Im sorry if this is an imposition but I know that there is a thread with pics of the legal 30.06 and the 51% sign but I can't find them anywhere.
Will someone please post a link to these?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JDJ]

Im sorry if this is an imposition but I know that there is a thread with pics of the legal 30.06 and the 51% sign but I can't find them anywhere.
Will someone please post a link to these?

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes Sir, that's it. Thank you very much.

[ELB]

I am still curious as to the results of this:

(i.e. "bump")

Question for Mr. Cotton,

While perusing the thread to see if anyone else had ID'd San Antonio Airport for 30.06 signs, I ran across the below post. This was in reference to the Bexar County Tax Assessor trying to ban CHL carry and metal detectors and such. Did anything ever come of this?

So, can someone educate me as to the proper office to contact with regards to these issues for city and county owned property? I'm not looking for names, but general titles, like "City Attorney" or "County Sherrif" or something like that.

Thanks in advance!

I'll send an open records request to Bexar County. This should prove interesting.

Chas.

[puma guy]

I almost posted this as a new thread but I see other posts here for imprope 30.06. Recently went to Pasadena Police Department to obtain an accident report and Failure to Stop and Give information for an incident. A guy hit my truck and took off. (Officers were able to arrest him shortly after and additionally charged him with PI) Anyway I noticed a 30.06 at the entrance; even has a gun buster symbol. The area inside is not a secured area and I knew it was bogus but took my CCW back to my truck. I am still trying to get copies of the accident report so I didn't feel like antagonizing anyone there by asking the obvious question of the uniformed officer behind the counter. Any way, how does one pursue this to determine who authorized a flagrant violation of the laws? Sorry it's not a better picture but I didn't want to be too obvious.




additional photo added