Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

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frazzled

Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#16

Post by frazzled »

mymojo wrote:
flb_78 wrote:
frazzled wrote:Idiot. They should have tazed him for carrying while stupid.
He's an idiot and should be tazed for legally carrying a gun?

No wonder we keep losing our gun rights. :cryin
Yep, plenty of gun owners only care about *their* rights. Its that whole "hunting rifles and shotguns are OK, but handguns should be outlawed" thinking.
I have the right to wear a bikini and an aluminum hat to, but I wouldn't do that to a poltiical rally where I wanted anyone to take me seriously.
Carrying an AK to a protest makes you look:
1. Stupid
2. Militia like (read terrorist)
3. Redneck crazy.

It maybe your right but it just makes you and your cause look asinine and an absolute joke. Until you stop such antics any pretense you have of being a worthwhile long term party will not hold.
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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#17

Post by boomerang »

frazzled wrote:
mymojo wrote:
flb_78 wrote:
frazzled wrote:Idiot. They should have tazed him for carrying while stupid.
He's an idiot and should be tazed for legally carrying a gun?

No wonder we keep losing our gun rights. :cryin
Yep, plenty of gun owners only care about *their* rights. Its that whole "hunting rifles and shotguns are OK, but handguns should be outlawed" thinking.
I have the right to wear a bikini and an aluminum hat to, but I wouldn't do that to a poltiical rally where I wanted anyone to take me seriously.
But you shouldn't get tazed for it either.

Visibly carrying a rifle at a rally is not much different than audibly quoting scripture (or visibly carrying a bible) at a rally. Both may turn off some people but both rights are protected by the Bill of Rights.
"Ees gun! Ees not safe!"

frazzled

Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#18

Post by frazzled »

boomerang wrote:
frazzled wrote:
mymojo wrote:
flb_78 wrote:
frazzled wrote:Idiot. They should have tazed him for carrying while stupid.
He's an idiot and should be tazed for legally carrying a gun?

No wonder we keep losing our gun rights. :cryin
Yep, plenty of gun owners only care about *their* rights. Its that whole "hunting rifles and shotguns are OK, but handguns should be outlawed" thinking.
I have the right to wear a bikini and an aluminum hat to, but I wouldn't do that to a poltiical rally where I wanted anyone to take me seriously.
But you shouldn't get tazed for it either.

Visibly carrying a rifle at a rally is not much different than audibly quoting scripture (or visibly carrying a bible) at a rally. Both may turn off some people but both rights are protected by the Bill of Rights.
As stated, the person carrying it had the right, but it still makes him and the protest look asinine. Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should do a thing.
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denwego
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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#19

Post by denwego »

boomerang wrote:
frazzled wrote:
mymojo wrote:
flb_78 wrote:
frazzled wrote:Idiot. They should have tazed him for carrying while stupid.
He's an idiot and should be tazed for legally carrying a gun?

No wonder we keep losing our gun rights. :cryin
Yep, plenty of gun owners only care about *their* rights. Its that whole "hunting rifles and shotguns are OK, but handguns should be outlawed" thinking.
I have the right to wear a bikini and an aluminum hat to, but I wouldn't do that to a poltiical rally where I wanted anyone to take me seriously.
But you shouldn't get tazed for it either.

Visibly carrying a rifle at a rally is not much different than audibly quoting scripture (or visibly carrying a bible) at a rally. Both may turn off some people but both rights are protected by the Bill of Rights.


:iagree:

My wholehearted concurrence! I agree that it's not the type of image I'd want to present to the general public if I were working on political credibility, but that doesn't mean I don't applaud people for exercising their rights.

And I also agree that the Tea Parties of this year aren't what they were on 4/15/09, hence my own not attending one this time around.

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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#20

Post by Rex B »

This is from the Volokh Conspiracy blog, covering constitutional law matters:

National Survey of Tea Party Supporters, Done by the New York Times and CBS News

(Eugene Volokh)

Here are the details. Some unsurprising data, but some noteworthy; among other things, tea party supporters are more conservative than the public on social issues, but not vastly so — 40% think Roe v. Wade “was a good thing” (compared to 58% of the public), and their support for allowing same-sex marriage or civil unions is 57%-40% (compared to 63%-30% for the public at large). Support for same-sex marriage as such is considerably lower: 16% as opposed to 39%.

I’ve heard statements that tea party supporters are predominantly male, but the margin is 59%-41%; tea party supporters are thus predominantly male only to pretty much the same extent as college students are predominantly female (57%-43%, 2005 data) — there’s a gender gap, but the movement pretty clearly appeals both to many men and many women. (Bipartisan + sexes instead of parties = bisexual?) They are also somewhat better educated than the public at large (70% with some college or more, as opposed to 53% among the general public). And they are somewhat more prosperous (56% reported incomes of $50,000 and above, as opposed to 44% among the general public) but generally not by much (only 31% reported incomes of $75,000 and above, as opposed to 26% of the general public).

Among the interesting but relatively little-noted substantial differences: The yes-no breakdown as to household gun ownership was 58%-32% for tea party supporters, and 41%-56% for the public at large.
-----------
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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#21

Post by mymojo »

frazzled wrote:

Carrying...(fill in the blank with an gun you dislike or don't own).... makes you look:
1. Stupid
2. Militia like (read terrorist)
3. Redneck crazy.

It maybe your right but it just makes you and your cause look asinine and an absolute joke.
Sounds an awful lot like a generic Anti argument for gun control to me.

If you can say he deserves to be tazed for carrying while you have a gun on your hip, then all you are really saying is
"my right to carry is morally superior to his right to carry." and I'm pretty sure there's a word for that.

Let me clarify my point: I find it completely reprehensible that a gun owner could say another gun owner deserves to be tazed for exercising his 2a rights.
"Dialing 9-1-1 is wise.... Expecting them to arrive in time to save you is foolish." - Tsung Tzu, The Art of War

frazzled

Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#22

Post by frazzled »

mymojo wrote:
frazzled wrote:

Carrying...(fill in the blank with an gun you dislike or don't own).... makes you look:
1. Stupid
2. Militia like (read terrorist)
3. Redneck crazy.

It maybe your right but it just makes you and your cause look asinine and an absolute joke.
Sounds an awful lot like a generic Anti argument for gun control to me.

If you can say he deserves to be tazed for carrying while you have a gun on your hip, then all you are really saying is
"my right to carry is morally superior to his right to carry." and I'm pretty sure there's a word for that.

Let me clarify my point: I find it completely reprehensible that a gun owner could say another gun owner deserves to be tazed for exercising his 2a rights.
Frankly its this sort of thing that keeps me from taking the "tea party" seriously.
If you believe thats an anti gun argument you're living in lala land. It made him look stupid. It made the protest look stupid. It was a politial rally, not gun rights rally. It was completely legal. But lots of things are completely legal and still completely inappropriate. If I am marching for or against abortion for example, I wouldn't carry a sign saying "STOP THE BADGERS!" All you will get is strange looks. Thats what occurred here.

No, he deserves to be tazed for being stupid. Lots of people deserve to be tazed for being stupid. Its a dream I have. :reddevil
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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#23

Post by USA1 »

I have to agree with frazzled and Oldgringo on this one.

I'm all for the RKBA but I don't see any benefit to this furthering our cause.
There are better venues for to do this.

As I see it, it only draws negative attention to us as gun owners.

*ducks and runs* :leaving
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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#24

Post by mymojo »

frazzled wrote:

Frankly its this sort of thing that keeps me from taking the "tea party" seriously.
If you believe thats an anti gun argument you're living in lala land. It made him look stupid. It made the protest look stupid. It was a politial rally, not gun rights rally. It was completely legal. But lots of things are completely legal and still completely inappropriate. If I am marching for or against abortion for example, I wouldn't carry a sign saying "STOP THE BADGERS!" All you will get is strange looks. Thats what occurred here.

No, he deserves to be tazed for being stupid. Lots of people deserve to be tazed for being stupid. Its a dream I have. :reddevil
So basically it boils down to this: His idea of when its appropriate to carry varies from yours. So, obviously,This makes him stupid - and deserving of a tazing.

got it. :thumbs2:
"Dialing 9-1-1 is wise.... Expecting them to arrive in time to save you is foolish." - Tsung Tzu, The Art of War

frazzled

Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#25

Post by frazzled »

mymojo wrote:
frazzled wrote:

Frankly its this sort of thing that keeps me from taking the "tea party" seriously.
If you believe thats an anti gun argument you're living in lala land. It made him look stupid. It made the protest look stupid. It was a politial rally, not gun rights rally. It was completely legal. But lots of things are completely legal and still completely inappropriate. If I am marching for or against abortion for example, I wouldn't carry a sign saying "STOP THE BADGERS!" All you will get is strange looks. Thats what occurred here.

No, he deserves to be tazed for being stupid. Lots of people deserve to be tazed for being stupid. Its a dream I have. :reddevil
So basically it boils down to this: His idea of when its appropriate to carry varies from yours. So, obviously,This makes him stupid - and deserving of a tazing.

got it. :thumbs2:
No basically he brought a rifle to a POLITICAL RALLY BY A GROUP ALL ABOUT REDUCING TAXES AND DEFICIT SPENDING.
Whats next? Take your rifle to the Soccer Mom Rally? How about the next St. Patrick's Day Parade? Its about as appropriate. Its legal then too, and just as stupid.

You have an NRA parade, great. RKBA parade, great. Open Carry rally, great. Potato Day celebrations, not so much.
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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#26

Post by The Annoyed Man »

A couple of interesting quotes...
Oldgringo wrote:Alright! That's the image we want the world to see. We really want the media to report that some dude showed up with an "assault weapon". Right?

Folk, we're trying to win the "hearts and minds" of the populace, not convince them that the liberal anti-2A media is right about misdirected and illiterate gunowners. :banghead:

Is it just me?
frazzled wrote:I have the right to wear a bikini and an aluminum hat to, but I wouldn't do that to a poltiical rally where I wanted anyone to take me seriously.
Carrying an AK to a protest makes you look:
1. Stupid
2. Militia like (read terrorist)
3. Redneck crazy.

It maybe your right but it just makes you and your cause look asinine and an absolute joke. Until you stop such antics any pretense you have of being a worthwhile long term party will not hold.
Oldgringo and Frazzled are giving voice to a legitimate concern, namely that nothing the Tea Party or its members do occurs in a vacuum. Practically everything that Tea Party activism does is newsworthy, and the media covering these things are overwhelmingly hostile to that activism. In Oregon, a local teacher is in the news because he has started an organization with the goal of breaking the back of the Tea Party. His chosen method is to infiltrate the movement, and act just a little bit more radical than the actual Tea Partiers, to draw media attention to himself so that the movement will be portrayed as dangerously radical and crazy. IF this story had not gained traction, he would have succeeded; the media would have focused on him and not the real members; and they would have willingly used that to try and destroy the movement.

Here is a fact: the predominantly liberal leftist media hates the Tea Party movement, dismisses them as illiterate crazies, and will gladly destroy them if they can. Why on earth should we give them the ammunition with which to do that, and make their jobs easier? Remember the famous "racist with an assault rifle on his back" photo at the early gatherings? When the un-cropped version of the photo was made public, the individual in question was a black guy. THIS is the media that is covering Tea Party events!!! STOP giving them ammunition to be used against you.

There is nothing immoral nor wrong about open carrying an AK47 or AR15, loaded or not, to a Tea Party event; but, it IS stupid, for exactly the reasons that frazzled numbered.
Bennies wrote:The Tea Party is turning into a circus anyways and has lost it's original following I believe.

After going to the one in Houston tonight i agree. It just didn't seem like the same type of grass roots event of the one last year i went to. I can't explain it but it was not the same.
I think there are two factors at play here which lead you to that impression:

1) The newness and spontaneity has worn off. This was bound to happen, regardless of whether the message is legitimate or not. As the fight drags on, only those who are really, really committed continue to show up, and to work behind the scenes to put these events on, while those who were motivated by temporary revolutionary zeal but not really committed to the cause start to fall away and do other things with their time. But the negative is that some of the fun has drained away, because now it is work.

2) The local grass roots has become a national movement. This involves out of state, non-local citizens in the process, and it becomes more "organized." At the original events here in Texas, the speakers were, perhaps with the exception of Glen Beck in San Antonio, Texas citizens and politicians. Now you have speakers with national reputations as activists showing up to speak at these things, and so yes, it is different.

If you believe in the cause, then you have to accept that it is no longer a local phenomenon and be happy that it has become such a national movement that it will have tremendous implications this year and in 2012. But that also means that you have to accept less spontaneous fun and more political work. If you believe in the cause.

If you don't, then do like the media has done: ignore it, ridicule it, fight it; and then like Ghandi said, lose to it.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"

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frazzled

Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#27

Post by frazzled »

The Annoyed Man wrote:A couple of interesting quotes...
Oldgringo wrote:Alright! That's the image we want the world to see. We really want the media to report that some dude showed up with an "assault weapon". Right?

Folk, we're trying to win the "hearts and minds" of the populace, not convince them that the liberal anti-2A media is right about misdirected and illiterate gunowners. :banghead:

Is it just me?
frazzled wrote:I have the right to wear a bikini and an aluminum hat to, but I wouldn't do that to a poltiical rally where I wanted anyone to take me seriously.
Carrying an AK to a protest makes you look:
1. Stupid
2. Militia like (read terrorist)
3. Redneck crazy.

It maybe your right but it just makes you and your cause look asinine and an absolute joke. Until you stop such antics any pretense you have of being a worthwhile long term party will not hold.
Oldgringo and Frazzled are giving voice to a legitimate concern, namely that nothing the Tea Party or its members do occurs in a vacuum. Practically everything that Tea Party activism does is newsworthy, and the media covering these things are overwhelmingly hostile to that activism. In Oregon, a local teacher is in the news because he has started an organization with the goal of breaking the back of the Tea Party. His chosen method is to infiltrate the movement, and act just a little bit more radical than the actual Tea Partiers, to draw media attention to himself so that the movement will be portrayed as dangerously radical and crazy. IF this story had not gained traction, he would have succeeded; the media would have focused on him and not the real members; and they would have willingly used that to try and destroy the movement.

Here is a fact: the predominantly liberal leftist media hates the Tea Party movement, dismisses them as illiterate crazies, and will gladly destroy them if they can. Why on earth should we give them the ammunition with which to do that, and make their jobs easier? Remember the famous "racist with an assault rifle on his back" photo at the early gatherings? When the un-cropped version of the photo was made public, the individual in question was a black guy. THIS is the media that is covering Tea Party events!!! STOP giving them ammunition to be used against you.

There is nothing immoral nor wrong about open carrying an AK47 or AR15, loaded or not, to a Tea Party event; but, it IS stupid, for exactly the reasons that frazzled numbered.
Bennies wrote:The Tea Party is turning into a circus anyways and has lost it's original following I believe.

After going to the one in Houston tonight i agree. It just didn't seem like the same type of grass roots event of the one last year i went to. I can't explain it but it was not the same.
I think there are two factors at play here which lead you to that impression:

1) The newness and spontaneity has worn off. This was bound to happen, regardless of whether the message is legitimate or not. As the fight drags on, only those who are really, really committed continue to show up, and to work behind the scenes to put these events on, while those who were motivated by temporary revolutionary zeal but not really committed to the cause start to fall away and do other things with their time. But the negative is that some of the fun has drained away, because now it is work.

2) The local grass roots has become a national movement. This involves out of state, non-local citizens in the process, and it becomes more "organized." At the original events here in Texas, the speakers were, perhaps with the exception of Glen Beck in San Antonio, Texas citizens and politicians. Now you have speakers with national reputations as activists showing up to speak at these things, and so yes, it is different.

If you believe in the cause, then you have to accept that it is no longer a local phenomenon and be happy that it has become such a national movement that it will have tremendous implications this year and in 2012. But that also means that you have to accept less spontaneous fun and more political work. If you believe in the cause.

If you don't, then do like the media has done: ignore it, ridicule it, fight it; and then like Ghandi said, lose to it.
:iagree:
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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#28

Post by Dragonfighter »

frazzled wrote:
No basically he brought a rifle to a POLITICAL RALLY BY A GROUP ALL ABOUT REDUCING TAXES AND DEFICIT SPENDING.
Whats next? Take your rifle to the Soccer Mom Rally? How about the next St. Patrick's Day Parade? Its about as appropriate. Its legal then too, and just as stupid.

You have an NRA parade, great. RKBA parade, great. Open Carry rally, great. Potato Day celebrations, not so much.
I agree that the display was unnecessarily militant, from a gain political traction standpoint. The Tea Party movement (I'm only basing this on what I've heard at rallies) is about a government out of control. The taxes are the catalyst for the ground swell, as they were in the original "tea party" (along with the Stamp Act and other sundry infringements) but that is not what the Tea Party is about.

I understand the concerns about a hostile media and a more hostile administration, but a movement based on liberty and having grown to the size of this one is going to attract the occasional fringe dweller. But as Tea Partiers are disinclined to restrict someone based on demographics or political affiliation (I have met my fair share of Democrats at these rallies) I doubt they would then be inclined to restrict someone for exercising their 2A rights...provided they behaved themselves.

So allow me a different tack. The media is and will be hostile regardless of how well organized, articulate or massive. The administration will continue to marginalize anyone who dissents until they are ejected by a (finally) active electorate. IMHO, we need to quit worrying about making a good impression on a hostile propaganda machine and focus on what's next. What is the strategy, what are the tactics and how do we accomplish our goals?

As for the occasional AK-47 totin' guy... :roll:
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Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#29

Post by jeeperbryan »

I think this was a stupid move on the guys part. Trying to win over anti-gun people by toting assault rifles in public is not going to work. I love my guns but idiotic stunts like this are hurting our causes more than they're helping.

frazzled

Re: Tea Partier Carries AK-47 at Capitol in Austin

#30

Post by frazzled »

What exactly was the guy's message anyhow?
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