Legal for Police to lie?

[Ol Zeke]

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

I’m not arguing with the correctness of what you say but I find this very disheartening.
I grew up (some 50 years ago) being taught that the policeman is your friend. He’s there to help you if you need it. There was no indication that this was going to change, when we grew up. That’s the way my kids were taught and now my grandkids.

If my family or I need to ask someone a question about a simple point of legality, why should we be afraid to ask a cop? After all he could be lying. Knowingly and deliberately lying. Just to get you to do what he thinks you should do.

Frankly, it has been my experience with most officers, that they are good decent people. So, it really makes me sad to realize that our system of justice has digressed to this point. Beware; the police are more interested in making arrests than they are in helping you!


What do I tell my grandkids? “Sorry guys, I was wrong. Not all policemen are like your Dad (or Uncle). You must be careful what you tell them. They have no interest in the truth (a concept that is hard to teach children, anyway). They must first believe you to be the victim, before they will help you. Give them only name, rank and serial number.”

I know this sounds extreme. I don’t think there are any cops out there who are trying to arrest children. But it makes a much neater package when, what we were taught growing up, continues through our adult life (as long as we obey the law and are ‘good’ people).

How did we get to this point and, more importantly, how do we get back (or at least better)?

Sorry for the rant. This makes me depressed. Think I’ll go get a beer.

[Fangs]

Eh, part of me smiled a little on the inside.

I've seen LEOs make up stuff, "lose" 3 (THREE!!!) videos of the same incident, search a CHL's car for his gun because he didn't give them his CHL since he wasn't carrying, push into apartments and houses where a few (think 5) of us legally aged people were drinking because they "thought they smelled illegal drugs" (not a chance on earth) after they "thought they heard a party", etc. I've been told I could be taken to jail for speeding 10 over on an empty highway with no one else in the car. Pretty sure they'd have a hard time classifying that as reckless endangerment or whatever.

I was at a party that got busted and asked the officers if I could stay (after they grabbed the obvious minors and told the rest of us we could leave) to find my 21-year-old roommate so he wouldn't try to drive home drunk. The officer told me to go stand in a certain spot. While standing there I was asked for my ID, which I handed over. Then when they told me to move inside I noticed the officer writing me an MIP. I was 17, in college, and had never had a sip of alcohol at that point in my life. Turns out that when I stood where the officer directed me to stand, I was within 50 feet of the kegs. Let's ignore the fact that it's the wee hours of the morning and that if I was going to drink that night I would have already started. Also, thinking back, I don't think I'd been within 50 feet due to the size of the crowd all night until I was directed to stand there. The officer issuing the ticket also refused to give me a breathalyzer (MIP, not MIC ), which I begged for. I figured that just because the LEO was an idiot (Yeah, I understand he was within his job description to write me a ticket. Was it his best choice as far as discretion goes? No) didn't mean that I wouldn't have a good case when I got to the judge.

Fortunately another officer took up my cause, breath tested me (after asking me 5 times if I was sure I wanted to), and convinced his fellow LEO to write me an MIP warning.

Before you tell me that I shouldn't have been there, I was happily playing Halo at a friend's and next thing I knew there were 2 fraternities several sororities and 3 kegs outside. And a pool. And sororities. In a pool. And I had no idea there was a proximity law on kegs. The officer didn't think my "I'm within 50 feet of the gun on your hip, can I have it back?" comment was nearly as funny as all the drunk kids getting tickets did.

I've had a cop try to sell me X tabs. In uniform. I knew the guy pretty well, and he wasn't trying to bust me. He'd gotten them off some kids and was running a pretty profitable, tax free business on the side.

I've been told that I could be arrested for not having ID on me. In my board shorts. On the river. Not drinking.

My friend got pulled over, arrested, and had his bike towed (just WRONG, IMHO. Scratched it all to ... scratch), only to have the police realize that his bike has custom purple flames on a black background, and the bike they were looking for was white.

Had a friend pulled over because "his tire tread was too low". Granted, this is the reason on the report after they found out he had an expired DL. I doubt the officer noticed it at 70mph on the highway.

My mom's been pulled over for allegedly doing 120mph in her minivan. It tops out at 95, trust me. My mom drives like a grandma too.

On the other hand, I have had some great LEO encounters. The LEO sticking up for me at that party left a lasting impression that there are good ones out there.

I have never had a bad LEO encounter while I'm the driver, though several have politely given me the tickets I deserved. I wouldn't consider the offhand "I could have taken you to jail for this" comment a bad encounter. I just knew he was wrong, as I thanked him for his mercy.

The few officers I've gotten to know from my jobs were all great people, until you threw a beer bottle at their head. Which I did witness. Along with the tasering that followed.

Not trying to rag on LEOs, but I have seen some funky things. I also know some funky people from school who are now LEOs.

[The Annoyed Man]

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

Sources?

Watch the video I posted immediately above your post. At 12:00 minutes, the officer describes a legal way of lying to you.

[ScottDLS]

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

Sources?

How about sources from the Penal Code that say they can't?

[gigag04]

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

Sources?

How about sources from the Penal Code that say they can't?

I lie all the time - esp during a warrant service. Well...not ALL the time....but frequently...it's a good tool to bluff people with, esp during things like the above mentioned warrant service.

[WildBill]

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

Sources?

Over the years, appellete courts and the Supreme Court have ruled on many occasions that it is legal for the police to lie.

[Frost]

Allowed, ha, they are trained to lie.

[PappaGun]

Eh, part of me smiled a little on the inside.

I've seen LEOs make up stuff, "lose" 3 (THREE!!!) videos of the same incident, search a CHL's car for his gun because he didn't give them his CHL since he wasn't carrying, push into apartments and houses where a few (think 5) of us legally aged people were drinking because they "thought they smelled illegal drugs" (not a chance on earth) after they "thought they heard a party", etc. I've been told I could be taken to jail for speeding 10 over on an empty highway with no one else in the car. Pretty sure they'd have a hard time classifying that as reckless endangerment or whatever.

I was at a party that got busted and asked the officers if I could stay (after they grabbed the obvious minors and told the rest of us we could leave) to find my 21-year-old roommate so he wouldn't try to drive home drunk. The officer told me to go stand in a certain spot. While standing there I was asked for my ID, which I handed over. Then when they told me to move inside I noticed the officer writing me an MIP. I was 17, in college, and had never had a sip of alcohol at that point in my life. Turns out that when I stood where the officer directed me to stand, I was within 50 feet of the kegs. Let's ignore the fact that it's the wee hours of the morning and that if I was going to drink that night I would have already started. Also, thinking back, I don't think I'd been within 50 feet due to the size of the crowd all night until I was directed to stand there. The officer issuing the ticket also refused to give me a breathalyzer (MIP, not MIC ), which I begged for. I figured that just because the LEO was an idiot (Yeah, I understand he was within his job description to write me a ticket. Was it his best choice as far as discretion goes? No) didn't mean that I wouldn't have a good case when I got to the judge.

Fortunately another officer took up my cause, breath tested me (after asking me 5 times if I was sure I wanted to), and convinced his fellow LEO to write me an MIP warning.

Before you tell me that I shouldn't have been there, I was happily playing Halo at a friend's and next thing I knew there were 2 fraternities several sororities and 3 kegs outside. And a pool. And sororities. In a pool. And I had no idea there was a proximity law on kegs. The officer didn't think my "I'm within 50 feet of the gun on your hip, can I have it back?" comment was nearly as funny as all the drunk kids getting tickets did.

I've had a cop try to sell me X tabs. In uniform. I knew the guy pretty well, and he wasn't trying to bust me. He'd gotten them off some kids and was running a pretty profitable, tax free business on the side.

I've been told that I could be arrested for not having ID on me. In my board shorts. On the river. Not drinking.

My friend got pulled over, arrested, and had his bike towed (just WRONG, IMHO. Scratched it all to ... scratch), only to have the police realize that his bike has custom purple flames on a black background, and the bike they were looking for was white.

Had a friend pulled over because "his tire tread was too low". Granted, this is the reason on the report after they found out he had an expired DL. I doubt the officer noticed it at 70mph on the highway.

My mom's been pulled over for allegedly doing 120mph in her minivan. It tops out at 95, trust me. My mom drives like a grandma too.

On the other hand, I have had some great LEO encounters. The LEO sticking up for me at that party left a lasting impression that there are good ones out there.

I have never had a bad LEO encounter while I'm the driver, though several have politely given me the tickets I deserved. I wouldn't consider the offhand "I could have taken you to jail for this" comment a bad encounter. I just knew he was wrong, as I thanked him for his mercy.

The few officers I've gotten to know from my jobs were all great people, until you threw a beer bottle at their head. Which I did witness. Along with the tasering that followed.

Not trying to rag on LEOs, but I have seen some funky things. I also know some funky people from school who are now LEOs.

Fangs,
This is a great post/reply.
This encapsulates my experiences as well (though I think your experiences are more recent than mine) and I think
gives good examples of why so many people mis-trust law enforcement.
Thanks

[WildBill]

Allowed, ha, they are trained to lie.

So why is it against the law to lie to the police?

[seniorshooteress]

Doesn't anyone watch the TV shows: Law & Order or anything that has anything to do with police and/or courtrooms. Of Course LEO can lie to you they just can't do it in a court of law, under oath, but to get you to confess to a crime or just for grins, they can lie and why not? They listen to people lie to them every day. The guy in this video is an idiot. If i get stopped for a traffic violation or have any contact with LEO I am on my best behavour. I treat LEO like they are a DI in the military. He may not always be right, but he is never WRONG. I don't like peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches all that much.

[Bart]

Allowed, ha, they are trained to lie.

So why is it against the law to lie to the police?

It's only a crime if you're innocent. Otherwise it seems to be protected by the fifth of Jägermeister the judge was drinking.

[JNMAR]

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

I’m not arguing with the correctness of what you say but I find this very disheartening.
I grew up (some 50 years ago) being taught that the policeman is your friend. He’s there to help you if you need it. There was no indication that this was going to change, when we grew up. That’s the way my kids were taught and now my grandkids.

If my family or I need to ask someone a question about a simple point of legality, why should we be afraid to ask a cop? After all he could be lying. Knowingly and deliberately lying. Just to get you to do what he thinks you should do.

Frankly, it has been my experience with most officers, that they are good decent people. So, it really makes me sad to realize that our system of justice has digressed to this point. Beware; the police are more interested in making arrests than they are in helping you!


What do I tell my grandkids? “Sorry guys, I was wrong. Not all policemen are like your Dad (or Uncle). You must be careful what you tell them. They have no interest in the truth (a concept that is hard to teach children, anyway). They must first believe you to be the victim, before they will help you. Give them only name, rank and serial number.”

I know this sounds extreme. I don’t think there are any cops out there who are trying to arrest children. But it makes a much neater package when, what we were taught growing up, continues through our adult life (as long as we obey the law and are ‘good’ people).

How did we get to this point and, more importantly, how do we get back (or at least better)?

Sorry for the rant. This makes me depressed. Think I’ll go get a beer.

What he said cept I'm gonna have a scotch n soda...maybe even two, I'm home for the evening.

[marksiwel]

Great video, disagreed with alot of stuff, but the cameraman was smart enough to remember that he was not being detained and was free to go. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!

[ScottDLS]

About the lying part, YES, the police can lie to you.

...

Sorry for the rant. This makes me depressed. Think I’ll go get a beer.

What he said cept I'm gonna have a scotch n soda...maybe even two, I'm home for the evening.

I think I'll go get two beers at the Chili's down the street with a gunbuster sign, while carrying...then I'm going to the Post Office for some stamps... and then drop by Grapevine Mills Mall where I will get in a debate with the security guard about the height of the letters on the 30.06 sign and the poor grammar in the Spanish translation... Then I'll ask a cop if I'm OK to carry... I hope he doesn't lie.

[rm9792]

PC 38.02 covers the ID question. Basically you do not have to have ID unless an activity requires it, ie driving, carrying, etc. You do have to give your name and adddress if asked and can be detained until your identity is verified. I would see this in a situation where you fit a description they are looking for.