Concerned over cuffed and stuffed

[handog]

handog & gigag04:

I respect both of your opinions greatly. I have read many comments from each of you and you both seem to be good, intelligent people based on what I've read. It's obvious that this case of the "failure to conceal" incident in Round Rock has the two of you on opposite ends of an argument. Gigag04, you weren't there and don't know the details beyond what handog has told us all here on the forum. Handog, you have made your case on this forum against RRPD and further discussion of it - especially bashing the police, however subtle it may seem to you - can be offensive to the "good cops" out there (and I have to assume that gigag04 is one of the good cops), and can also be offensive to those of us who respect the badge. I don't think you intend to bash all cops, and I do believe your axe to grind is specifically with the RRPD and the particular officers involved. But you have said that you intend to leave it alone because you don't have time/money or whatever to pursue the situation further. So perhaps it's time to let it lie here on the forum too? If there's new information, I'd be interested to hear it. But until then, I think we know everything we're going to know about this situation.

And for everyone else, let's not pile on either of these guys. Handog went through a very trying ordeal. And gigag04, I can only assume, goes through ordeals on a near daily basis as most law enforcement officers do.

Anyway, IANAM (I am not a moderator) and I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds. But I just thought I'd take a moment to ask you guys bury the hatchet on this issue. Further back-n-forth probably ain't gonna solve anything.

Again, I respect both your opinions and hope to read many more of your posts in the future.

This is a great forum but sometimes it seems that any mention of the police in a post will get you a cop basher label. I never said the officers involved were bad cops just ignorant when it comes to CHL law. I The gun was in a deep concealment holster, tucked inside my belt the entire time. I think the analogy of reaching for the top shelf is fitting here. Is that part of the three stupid things not to do ?

"you don't have time/money or whatever to pursue the situation further" Actually, what I said was there was no support from my attorney, the NRA or the TSRA therefore I have no choice but to let it go.

[MechAg94]

I have been carrying for years with no problems. In many of the stories I read, something doesn't add up. Maybe the poster is withholding some details for personal reasons. That's their right but it does raise questions.

Are there bad cops? Yes. But I don't think me carrying legally materially increases my risk from those rotten apples. YMMV

I think anytime some 3rd party calls the cops about a "man with a gun", they are going to respond seriously and you will have to talk to them. I think that is the 'common thread' here.

A while back, one of the writers for the TSRA magazine wrote a story about how he was parked at a Sonic starting to eat when officers came up and started questioning him about a rifle. It seems he had been shooting a black powder muzzleloader earlier and had it sitting in the front seat. The barrel (and ramrod) was apparently visible from outside and someone nearby called the cops about a man with a gun. I am sure there are more details to that also that I can't remember, but he said it took a little while to get them to realize that a black powder muzzle loader wasn't a legal firearm and he was perfectly legal toting it around in his front seat unsecured.

[gigag04]

Allow me to explain why you guys will often see the reaction from me.

Day in and day out I deal with people falsely accusing myself and other officers around me of misconduct. Our sergeants frequently field complaints from people trying to get officers in trouble. Each complaint is investigated, usually starting with the seargent - by him/her watching the video/audio from the incident. 999 times out of 1000 that is where it stops - as it is unfounded and usually the citizen is the one who is out of line.

I was in a fight this week that screwed up my knee and the whole time we're fighting with the guy (before he got tased) he's screaming he knows his rights and not to touch him...after he assaulted an officer. It was a simple warrant arrest gone wrong - but he thought we were in the wrong. His family will more than likely file a complaint and say that we abused him for no reason. Happens every day.

I will definitely not stand behind an officer that is overstepping the bounds of his authority or has a chip on his shoulder. I got into this line of work because I like people...and we get to work with people...of all walks of life. I can be courteous and professional all day long, while having a plan to inflict serious pain to whomever I meet. Even after this guy was secured I started lightening the mood by talking about his work, and the field he's in etc...it's over...no reason to hold a grudge.

So - if it seems like I am skeptical of every story recounting some story of police mistreatment it is because I deal with these things daily and I know that most of the time, somebody got caught doing something wrong, and wants to somehow take it out on the cop with an IA investigation. I know this isn't always the case, and cops do stupid things too....I won't back a cop doing something illegal against the rights of a citizen. But...when I see a story and something doesn't add up...I am inclined to believe there is information I haven't been given. I see how the news portrays incidents at our department and how little of the truth is actually included. I don't give the public a blank pass to conjure up whatever events they like about LEOs the same way I won't allow LEOs to mistreat people when I'm around. I'm lucky and work for an extremely professional department that values things like honor, ethics, and integrity.

Those that think Cops don't know CHL law are kidding yourselves. Maybe a small minority...but we have continuing ed classes on penal code updates, and we reference the penal code with every arrest we make, and every charge we file.

[joe817]

gigag04, thank you for your comments. I appreciate them. And I want to thank you for your service to your community.

[MojoTexas]

gigag04, thank you for your comments. I appreciate them. And I want to thank you for your service to your community.

I second that...I always enjoy reading your posts, gigag04, because I find the LEO perspective interesting. Y'all take a lot of flak for what is often a thankless, dangerous, and woefully underpaid job.

(Gig'Em! BTHO USU!)
(Another Aggie...)
MojoTexas

[TLynnHughes]

gigag04, thank you for your comments. I appreciate them. And I want to thank you for your service to your community.

I second that...I always enjoy reading your posts, gigag04, because I find the LEO perspective interesting. Y'all take a lot of flak for what is often a thankless, dangerous, and woefully underpaid job.

(Gig'Em! BTHO USU!)
(Another Aggie...)
MojoTexas

with both. Thank you for what you do and for being willing to promote the LEO side even when you realize it might be an unfavorable position.

T.

[wgoforth]

Those that think Cops don't know CHL law are kidding yourselves. Maybe a small minority...but we have continuing ed classes on penal code updates, and we reference the penal code with every arrest we make, and every charge we file.

Gig, I was actually defending LEO's saying that some of the problem might not be bad cop but sometimes just misinformed. I will gladly introduce you to our local State Trooper Sarge who says ALL "no gun signs" are equally valid and will comprise a felony. I think he is a GOOD guy and appreciate his work. But he is simply misinformed about the law on this and the problem which was worse was that he could not be informed otherwise.

[handog]

I'm sure you do a fine job gigag04 and I respect your point of view however my wife and I are laughing because she was there. She knows my gun was never intentionally exposed.
Again' when the magistrate read the police report he smiled and said to the deputy "This sounds accidental." Then let me go. The implication that I am withholding information or I have gotten away with breaking the law just doesn’t hold water. The Arresting officer was WRONG for arresting me but there I won't expect an apology any time soon.

[MojoTexas]

I heard back from the CHLPP folks. They said that yes, they would provide legal assistance in a case like handogs, but their recommendation is not to carry in government buildings. (I know, I know...it's supposed to be legal...I'm just saying what he said.)

[wgoforth]

I heard back from the CHLPP folks. They said that yes, they would provide legal assistance in a case like handogs, but their recommendation is not to carry in government buildings. (I know, I know...it's supposed to be legal...I'm just saying what he said.)

Looked at their sight and looks interesting... they say they partner with TSRA. I know there have been questions about how legitimate several of these CHL prepaid insurance groups are. Does anyone have any personal experience (good or bad) or know of anyone who did? I could be interested.

[MojoTexas]

I heard back from the CHLPP folks. They said that yes, they would provide legal assistance in a case like handogs, but their recommendation is not to carry in government buildings. (I know, I know...it's supposed to be legal...I'm just saying what he said.)

Looked at their sight and looks interesting... they say they partner with TSRA. I know there have been questions about how legitimate several of these CHL prepaid insurance groups are. Does anyone have any personal experience (good or bad) or know of anyone who did? I could be interested.

Well I just got my paperwork in the mail yesterday, so I have no experience with filing a claim with them. They do give you a card with your member number on it, and a toll-free number to call if you ever find yourself in hot water. I made two copies of the card, and I plan to give one to my wife and one to my parents, since if you're using a phone from jail you never have your wallet or your cell phone with you.

If nothing else it gives me a little peace of mind. It's cheaper than liability car insurance, and if you do find yourself in legal hot water due to your CHL, the cost could be potentially MUCH higher than a simple fender bender.

[gigag04]

I understand cops are human, not robots and we all make mistakes.

then I question why you would be so quick to sue?

People threaten to sue cops all the time. Seems like a symptom of today's entitlementmentality to me. No offense just my opinion.

[08thunders]

I understand cops are human, not robots and we all make mistakes.

then I question why you would be so quick to sue?

People threaten to sue cops all the time. Seems like a symptom of today's entitlementmentality to me. No offense just my opinion.

Even humans should be held responsible for their actions if they make a mistake. We won't have much luck trying to arrest a cop, so civil courts are the best equalizer. Unless you want people being vigilantes instead.

[gigag04]

A charge being dropped because the judge doesn't buy intent is not worth litigation. If this is all you have, and the officer was not malicious - you don't have a case.

Can we get back on topic?

As long as the op makes a readonable effort to conceal his weapon
he should be fine.

[glbedd53]

I agree with that, not so sure I agree that LEO's are that informed on the law, I know too many that are not