ar15 capturing my interest. Now what?

[gigag04]

Bobcat I'm very interseted in linking up with you for a match. Can you describe more of what these matches are like?

Here are the specs of the Rifle Kit that Del-Ton is going to send me to assemble:


RKT100
16" M4 Rifle Kit
Barrel : Wilson Arms 16" M4 1x9 Chrome Lined
Bolt & Carrier : Standard Bolt & Carrier
Buttstocks : M4 6 Position Buttstock-Black
Charging Handle : Standard Charging Handle with Tac. Latch
Detachable Carrying Handle : None
Flash Hiders : Panther Comp. With Slots
Gas Blocks : Standard A2 Front Sight
Gas Tubes : CAR Gas Tube
Grips : Ergo Sure Grip - Right
Handguards : YHM 4 Rail Light Weight FF Tube
Lower Parts : Standard Lower Parts Kit
Upper : Flat-Top Upper


All of this will be going on a RRA Stripped lower for a total cost of a little more than $700 once I factor in transfer fees for the lower through my FFL.

I'm thinking about swapping the Std. lower parts kit for one with a 2 stage trigger, especially if I may compete as oppose to just shoot hogs.

I plan on ordering this in a month or so.

-nick

[BobCat]

Nick,

First off, that sounds like a sweet setup. You may eventually want a two-stage trigger but I don't see it costing more to add it later - beyond the initial cost of the stock one. I like the Jewell trigger but a number of people say it is passe (can't spell it - means, like, out-of-date, yesterday's fad) - there are better two-stage triggers out there.

You did not mention a rear sight. Flat-top with no carry handle, with standard front sight base for gas block, you either need a scope, carry handle with sight, or stand-alone rear sight.

Our club has two matches you might be interested in. One is prone only, three 20-shot slow fire strings (20 rounds in 20 minutes plus two sighters each time), alternaing with pulling targets in the pits. This is the third Sunday. There is a class (F-Class) for scoped rifles; otherwise it is Service Rifle or Match Rifle. 300 yards.

The other match is the standard across-the-course Highpower match, the second Saturday. It is Service Rifle or Match Rifle and the course of fire is:

20 rounds standing in 20 minutes, loaded and fired individually, 200 yards.

Two 10-shot strings seated for a total of 20 shots; each in 60 seconds, with a reload (load two mags, 2 rounds and 8 rounds, in deference to the old Garand that held 8 rounds). 200 yards.

Two 10-shot strings prone, 70 seconds each - same deal with the reload. 300 yards.

20 rounds prone at 600 yards, slow-fire like the standing.

There are 2 sighters in front of each of these four strings of fire - standing, seated, prone rapid, prone slow, so the match is 80 rounds plus 8 sighters.

People do shoot a 16" barrel no problem at 300, but for 600, most use a 1:8 twist 20" barrel and heavier (77 or 80 grain) bullets, because the wind is a factor. Nothing wrong with having more than one upper, eventually.

This is getting too long, and I'm nervous about offending Charles and the other board members, spouting off about rifle matches on a CHL board.

I have a .pdf file our match director wrote a couple years ago, intro to Highpower. Anyone wants it, let me know and I will be delighted to send it - I have his permission.

And the offer stands - my "other" rifle is available for loan for the match, but be warned it is a 1:9 twist so will not shoot all that well at 600 - but if we can get on opposite relays, we can share my main rifle.

Regards,
Andrew

[gigag04]

This is getting too long, and I'm nervous about offending Charles and the other board members, spouting off about rifle matches on a CHL board.

I should be ok - It's under the general shooting section. AR talk would fall under that banner "apart from CHL issues."

As far as match stuff goes I think i would suck it up shooting at 300 yrds since I've never really dealt with anything that far out before. Maybe I should come and observe first? Seems kind of intimidating....

As for as optics I was looking at the EOTech hologram eventually, but I will be getting a handle (removable) with the kit when I order it until I can make that leap.

[BobCat]

gigag04,

Sorry for the delay getting back - "real life" gets in the way sometimes.

Watching a rifle match is as exciting as watching paint dry. Three hundred yards at the enormous target - MR63 has an 18" aiming black, which includes the 7, 8, 9, 10, and X rings - is like 25 yards at a 1.5" black spot, or 50 yards at a 3" spot.

Also, lying prone with the sling pulling the rifle very firmly into your shoulder is a very stable position. Trust me, you will be *amazed* at how well you can print at 300, if you have never tired it.

And to top it all off: no one teases, denigrates, or disparages anyone's scores. Last Saturday at the across-the-course match, I shot the worst score I've shot in about 3 years - couldn't get anything right - and still, no one teased me. This is important - for those of us thin-skinned enough to be run off by embarrassment.

Anyway, the rifle you are building will be good for three-gun matches too, and clearly for more serious purposes. Have fun!

Regards,
Andrew

[gigag04]

Should I maybe get a scope instead of the hologram? Thay may be a cheaper route. Thinking of ordering the components in the next few weeks.

-nick

[stevie_d_64]

I'm thinking about swapping the Std. lower parts kit for one with a 2 stage trigger, especially if I may compete as oppose to just shoot hogs.

I plan on ordering this in a month or so.

-nick

That looks to be a great spec to me...And for that price...Bay-ute-tif-ful!

The one thing I just found out this last weekend (Father's Day) is that unless you really have a good shot on a "hog" (ferrel or javelina)...A .223 to me is not a high precentage "insta kill" on something above 50-60 lbs...

I am not much of a hunter anymore...I will of course do so if I must...And I can do it very well when I need to...

My experience with these ferrel hogs is that they really have a tough "kill zone" on their bodies...I have a cousin who shot one last year on our property that took a .308, and ten minutes later got up and trotted off like nothing happened...And that shot, he said, was right behind the shoulder...

FYI, the reason we are shooting these hogs is not for sport, we are trying to cull a large multi-property "ranging" herd that is seriously damaging our land up there in N.E. Texas...

And if I had a .50 Barrett, I would use it on the "big ones"...

My 30.06 BAR Sportsman, is my hog culler of choice...And a Ruger .44 is my "cu-de-gras" (spelling??? echhh!)...

But this is all just my opinion concerning the use of a .223 for hogs...I think it is not a very good caliber of choice for these types of animals...

[Tom]

The one thing I just found out this last weekend (Father's Day) is that unless you really have a good shot on a "hog" (ferrel or javelina)...A .223 to me is not a high precentage "insta kill" on something above 50-60 lbs...

I am not much of a hunter anymore...I will of course do so if I must...And I can do it very well when I need to...

My experience with these ferrel hogs is that they really have a tough "kill zone" on their bodies...I have a cousin who shot one last year on our property that took a .308, and ten minutes later got up and trotted off like nothing happened...And that shot, he said, was right behind the shoulder...

FYI, the reason we are shooting these hogs is not for sport, we are trying to cull a large multi-property "ranging" herd that is seriously damaging our land up there in N.E. Texas...

And if I had a .50 Barrett, I would use it on the "big ones"...

My 30.06 BAR Sportsman, is my hog culler of choice...And a Ruger .44 is my "cu-de-gras" (spelling??? echhh!)...

But this is all just my opinion concerning the use of a .223 for hogs...I think it is not a very good caliber of choice for these types of animals...

stevie_d_64

I agree with your shot placement statement, it is everything!

But one thing I do know about feral hogs is that if they are hit in the
head/neck area with a .223 they will drop in their tracks. I got one
yesterday morning at 90 yards (porch to feeder) with my Bushmaster,
topped with a 4X scope, and 55gr soft point handloads. I didn't weigh it
but guess that it was about 100-110 lbs. It was one of about 20 at my
feeder and they all scattered so fast I could not get a second shot.

I am working on my second dozen of these with this rifle and load.
I actually got three in about 5 seconds last summer, all head
or spine shots, and none ran or moved more than a couple of feet.

The only hog that ever ran off was the first one I shot. I hit it with a
140gr SP in 6.5X55 Swede from a Win M70. It took the shot in the ribs,
fell over, got up, ran off, and I never found it. I decided there and then
that I needed a better plan, hence the head shot routine ever since.

Agreeing again with Steve shot placement is everything. I am lucky in
that I can shoot from a known distance, at animals occupied with feeding,
and can get very stable sitting in my patio chair with just the muzzle
pushed out of a partially opened screen door. They never see me or
hear me and I only take high probability shots. I do use the meat from
the smaller hogs but the vultures get the bigger ones. They are feasting
as I write this - about 40 of them, both red and black headed, and a
few crows/ravens? too.

Back to AR issues: I replaced the standard Bushmaster trigger several
months ago with a RRA 2 stage and love it. It was a great bargain from
Brownells (I get dealer prices due to my C&R). I actually like the RRA
trigger better than the Armalite 2 stage that I have in my Armalite NM.
I did not however, use the RRA pins are they are oversized and I didn't
want to make that change. As it turns out the standard pins work great.

The AR is a great shooting platform due to low recoil, cheap ammo for
practice, quick followup shots, and if your skill level allows, will do the
job on anything you are likely to find in this part of TX. One of my
neighbors has a T/C Encore in .223 that he uses exclusively for deer
(Axis,Sika,Fallow) and antelope (Blackbuck) and is up to about 60
animals over the last 6 years and none have run off. He shoots from
both his front porch and from several blinds on his property.
He told me about doing the head/neck shot routine and it has not let me
or him down yet.
His wife uses a .243 and we had to work up a Partition load for her as
she was having animals run off after taking body shots with Ballistic Tips.
BTW the Partitions are working perfectly - no lost animals in over a year.

All this means is that if you practice to get your skills up the .223 in the
right place is plenty good enough.


Maybe we need a hunting forum to share our experiences.

Regards,

Tom

[stevie_d_64]

I think thats a great idea Tom...

What spirned me a little about the whole "hog" issue was during this last weekend, I was flipping though the channels up at our property, and saw some hunting/outdoor program showing this guy up in Arkansas or somewhere working his way to a "stand" where he was going to shoot some ferrel pigs from...

I have never in my life seen a poorer shot (blatant gut shot) from a hunter in my life...He had a pretty nice looking .270 that I even believe would have worked real nice on a thick hog...If the shot had been placed better...

And to think they actually taped, then broadcast it to boot...

I guess that why if I ever have a shot, it better be a good clean one, or I don't take it...But thats just a personal conviction...Which when presented with a situation that warrants a modification to that idea...I can certainly adjust...But I don't have to now...

But that handload absolutely looks to be the right one for that situation...

The .223 I use are not handloads, but production stuff from "PMP", that South African stuff that came out a while back...I think I still got a case of it somewhere in the house... It'll do in a pinch...

If there was another thing I need to get up to speed on its "reloading"...

[Tom]

But that handload absolutely looks to be the right one for that situation...

The .223 I use are not handloads, but production stuff from "PMP", that South African stuff that came out a while back...I think I still got a case of it somewhere in the house... It'll do in a pinch...

If there was another thing I need to get up to speed on its "reloading"...

Steve,

I still have the better part of my third case of the PMP .223. I used that
in some of my first matches shooting the AR, before I started handloading.
It is good reliable ammo. Never had a failure with them.

I now use that same brass for my handloads. I have collected lots
of different types of brass over the last several years but stick to the PMP
because I can't seem to wear them out. The IMI stuff (headstamp TZZ)
is also tough stuff, and holds a bit more powder than the PMP. I use
it if I need to move up the load scale a tad, like loading the 75gr Hornady
bullets for long range shooting.

The AR is a great platform with many uses. Once folks get past the very
military look of it, it is easy to get them hooked on shooting it. And most
especially the women. My three daughters have all shot mine, and the
youngest shot service rifle matches with the Bushmaster with me. She
wanted to move up to the Armalite and I told her that she could as soon
as she beat me. Four matches later she had the Armalite. That was in
NC, and when we moved to TX she hit the road as a travelling nurse and
both of our match shooting days ended.

I got a Christmas card from a friend from Illinois last year. She is a
slight lady, maybe 100 lbs, and about 5'3" or so. She included a picture
of herself at the NRA range in VA shooting her sons AR-15. And she
left the impression that she really enjoyed it. Cracked me up, big time.

Regards,

Tom