First aid ,CPR after shooting?

[old farmer]

Last night on the TV there was a video of post police shooting. The Bad guy was on the ground handcuffed with two gunshoots. The reporter stated that the EMS started CPR on way to the ER. Her point: why was it not started by the police at scene? What is the legel requirement? thank you

PS I wll correct grammar error later.

[A-R]

Last night on the TV there was a video of post police shooting. The Bad guy was on the ground handcuffed with two gunshoots. The reporter stated that the EMS started CPR on way to the ER. Her point: why was it not started by the police at scene? What is the legel requirement? thank you

PS I wll correct grammar error later.

• If the particular cops are not professionally trained to administer CPR, they shouldn't do so.
• Even if they are professionally trained, it may still be a risk for them to do so because they are not doctors/EMTs

I'm just guessing. I certainly would not do so if I was involved in a shooting

a) I'm not an EMT and have no specialized training
b) I most likely have NO IDEA who this person is, what their blood may be infected with, and I don't carry around sterile gloves like many cops do
c) I don't know if the person may be faking the severity of their injuries and waiting for me to "help" so they can re-attack

[The Annoyed Man]

If you are attacked, and you legitimately shoot your attacker, and you have called an ambulance, then you have more than discharged any social responsibility you might think you have.

Harsh as it sounds, your primary responsibility is to yourself at that point. Let the LEOs do what they do; and let the EMS guys do what they do; and you do what you have to do to avoid a trial.

[joe817]

The Bad guy was on the ground handcuffed with two gunshoots. The reporter stated that the EMS started CPR on way to the ER. Her point: why was it not started by the police at scene? What is the legel requirement?

PS I wll correct grammar error later.

(bold emphasis is mine). Perhaps CPR was not actually needed prior to the ambulance arrived(breathing on his own, conscious, etc), and CPR only became necessary during the trip to the hospital.

Just a thought.

[DrBillC]

I agree with TAM. If you've called an ambulance, you've met your obligations. When performing CPR, you would be in a most vulnerable position for any "friends" of the BG that might be lurking. Also, LEOs carry and use handcuffs; CHLs don't and you couldn't be sure what actions the BG might take if he revived or were faking. And, you definitely don't know what is in the BGs blood.

[gigag04]

It's in our policy that anytime we use force to gain control of another, once we gain control we render aid that individual.

[tacticool]

It's in our policy that anytime we use force to gain control of another, once we gain control we render aid that individual.

That's a nice policy if you have the ability and legal authority to sufficiently restrain them, especially if you have backup standing right there. A citizen who is attacked by a criminal probably doesn't have those, or the criminal probably would have picked an easier victim.

[gigag04]

It's in our policy that anytime we use force to gain control of another, once we gain control we render aid that individual.

That's a nice policy if you have the ability and legal authority to sufficiently restrain them, especially if you have backup standing right there. A citizen who is attacked by a criminal probably doesn't have those, or the criminal probably would have picked an easier victim.

Completely agree. If I don't have cuffs or something to restrain them, I'm not getting any closer than my approx 6ft reactionary gap.

[yerasimos]

I agree with most of the previous posters; if I have to defend myself from physical attack, I will let the professionals render hands-on medical aid to my assailant; my responsibility is to protect myself from further physical attack and mitigate subsequent legal fallout.

This might stray slightly off-topic, but it may be a good idea to think about how you would render self-care in case you are involved in a two-way gunfight or otherwise take damage. I believe the media, and some forms of training, do not adequately convey criminals' frequent advantages in initiative, armament and numerical superiority when they prey upon regular people minding their own non-violent business, and do not address what may be necessary to make it to the emergency room and beyond.

[howdy]

I am a Paramedic and I agree with Joe 817. You don't do CPR unless the guy in pulseless and not breathing. (if he is pulseless, he will not be breathing long.) Even as a Paramedic, my last thought after shooting someone would be to do CPR on him. First off, I am not going to shoot someone unless they really, really scared the heck out of me and put me in fear of my or my families life. I am going to seek cover, call 911, and let the Police respond. I will tell 911 that the BG was shot and to please send an ambulance. The ambulance will park some distance from the scene until they are told by LE that it is safe to come to the scene. CPR moves the blood around in the body, and most people who die from a gunshot wound die from massive internal bleeding. The heart is a pump, and like all pumps, it needs something to pump in order to work. Also, only blood carries Oxygen to the cells, and no amount of fluid that EMS gives can move that Oxygen. The guy needs a surgeon, and that normally means a Trauma Center. The odds are not real good that you will be able to save the guy.

[jimlongley]

I am a Paramedic and I agree with Joe 817. You don't do CPR unless the guy in pulseless and not breathing. (if he is pulseless, he will not be breathing long.) Even as a Paramedic, my last thought after shooting someone would be to do CPR on him. First off, I am not going to shoot someone unless they really, really scared the heck out of me and put me in fear of my or my families life. I am going to seek cover, call 911, and let the Police respond. I will tell 911 that the BG was shot and to please send an ambulance. The ambulance will park some distance from the scene until they are told by LE that it is safe to come to the scene. CPR moves the blood around in the body, and most people who die from a gunshot wound die from massive internal bleeding. The heart is a pump, and like all pumps, it needs something to pump in order to work. Also, only blood carries Oxygen to the cells, and no amount of fluid that EMS gives can move that Oxygen. The guy needs a surgeon, and that normally means a Trauma Center. The odds are not real good that you will be able to save the guy.

As a former EMT, I agree with all of that and more.

And then there is the fact that TV shows are works of fiction, by the unknowing for the uncaring, even the news.

If it's a news piece, don't count on the reporter having any idea what he/she is talking about, "began CPR" sounds more impressive than "began treatment," and how many times have you heard them report that the weapon used in such and such a crime was "a high caliber assault rifle" as if such a thing existed.

[Keith B]

I am a Paramedic and I agree with Joe 817. You don't do CPR unless the guy in pulseless and not breathing. (if he is pulseless, he will not be breathing long.) Even as a Paramedic, my last thought after shooting someone would be to do CPR on him. First off, I am not going to shoot someone unless they really, really scared the heck out of me and put me in fear of my or my families life. I am going to seek cover, call 911, and let the Police respond. I will tell 911 that the BG was shot and to please send an ambulance. The ambulance will park some distance from the scene until they are told by LE that it is safe to come to the scene. CPR moves the blood around in the body, and most people who die from a gunshot wound die from massive internal bleeding. The heart is a pump, and like all pumps, it needs something to pump in order to work. Also, only blood carries Oxygen to the cells, and no amount of fluid that EMS gives can move that Oxygen. The guy needs a surgeon, and that normally means a Trauma Center. The odds are not real good that you will be able to save the guy.

As a former EMT, I agree with all of that and more.

And then there is the fact that TV shows are works of fiction, by the unknowing for the uncaring, even the news.

If it's a news piece, don't count on the reporter having any idea what he/she is talking about, "began CPR" sounds more impressive than "began treatment," and how many times have you heard them report that the weapon used in such and such a crime was "a high caliber assault rifle" as if such a thing existed.

+1 When I taught first responder training, your job as a LEO was to secure the scene, then render aid as best you could with your skills. I would not feel the scene was secure if I was trying to provide CPR and had the potential of him coming back and fighting me or an accomplice coming in to the attack. Let the MCU come in and take it from there.

[srothstein]

I have to agree with almost everything posted here, and add a slight explanation of gigago4's comment about policy. The reason the PD have such a policy is because once a person is in custody, they are legally responsible for the suspect's physical well-being. It really is a simple rule. It also would not apply to a citizen involved in a shooting.

One point not made is that there is a lot of trauma and shock involved in being in a shooting. Believe me, the average cop, even when trained in CPR, would not be capable of giving it properly in most cases. I know it never even entered my mind.

On a funnier note, if you ask the average experienced cop how to give first aid, he will demonstrate picking up his radio and saying "Could you ask EMS to step it up a little please? This looks serious." or words to that effect.

[Keith B]

On a funnier note, if you ask the average experienced cop how to give first aid, he will demonstrate picking up his radio and saying "Could you ask EMS to step it up a little please? This looks serious." or words to that effect.

[Nicolai]

Since this thread is veering towards humor, in one of his novels, Joseph Wambaugh wrote about a police officer he called "The Bad Czech" who performed CPR on a badly wounded miscreant, with the effect of nearly pumping out all of the BG's blood. Bystanders were impressed by The Bad Czech's compassion for the wounded BG. And there's always "New York CPR" which can't be discussed further here.