Why do LEOs want you to stay in the car on a traffic stop?

[rthillusa]

I've been wondering this for some time now and never really had any place to ask. This forum is such a wealth of information. Maybe someone here knows why. Maybe the answer is too obvious for me to see.

In the "old" days, when I got stopped, I would get out of the car and walk back to meet the officer, usually about half way between. We would talk about whatever he stopped me for, he would take my license, go back to his car, run it, then come back and either give me a pass, a warning or a ticket. All the while I am standing there in the full glare of his lights, essentially blinded while he held all the tactical advantage.

The last few times I have been stopped, over the last few years, the officer seems to become distinctly upset that I am out of the car as he pulls to a stop. I am just standing there, by my door. "Get back in the car! Get back in the car NOW!". Last time was at night in a suburb near McKinney. You would have thought I was John Dillenger.

So what's the deal? My thinking is, if am an LEO approaching some guy I know nothing about, I would really prefer him to be standing out in the open, in the glare of my headlights where I can see his hands and where there are no little hiddy places for him to jerk something out of just as I reach the door. But this does not appear to be the case. I can see some psychological advantage maybe to him standing and me sitting in a confined area, but durn, he is walking up to a dark car with no idea what he has just stopped, who is in the car, or what's waiting for him as he steps up to my window. (Jeeze, that must take a lot of guts!)

I don't get it, why do LEOs get so uptight if you want to step out and meet them in the open? Why wouldn't he want me out in the open, in the light? What am I missing?

Thanks,

Robert

[dicion]

Ya know, that's a good question, and I have no answers.

In the drivers seat, you can do a whole lot of things that could be bad news for the LEO, reach somewhere, grab something, or simply Drive off.
Standing outside your vehicle, hands in the open, does seem to be more 'visible' at least at first glance...

Perhaps one of the Current/Former LEO's on this forum can explain.

[Kevinf2349]

Maybe it is just safer for you to be in your car?

[MoJo]

It's for both your safety and the officer's safety. If you are in your car the officer knows exactly where you are and you aren't exposed to traffic. A suspect outside the vehicle can physically assault the officer much more easily than if he's seated in the car. The officer can observe for indications of a gun etc. as he is approaching the car. If he's trying to keep an eye on traffic and the suspect outside the car he might miss something. A lot of agencies are now telling their officers to approach on the curb side of the vehicle rather than from the traffic side.

When stopped stay in your car, keep your hands on the steering wheel if nighttime turn on the dome light and wait for instructions from the officer. Don't go digging for your wallet, insurance card etc. until asked for them and tell the officer what you are doing when you reach for your documents. Don't get pepper sprayed, tasered or shot because you made some sudden move that was perceived as a threat.

That's what I learned at the Citizen's Police Academy I went to.

[nitrogen]

It's for both your safety and the officer's safety.

http://www.break.com/index/copnearmiss.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Because this can happen.

[JJVP]

Maybe because of this:

http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight. ... ing/#video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Deputy Kyle Dinkheller, Laurens County, GA, was minutes from being off duty when he encountered a speeding pickup truck going 98 mph. The deputy was an ICE (Interstate Criminal Enforcement) officer that dealt with traffic infractions, speeding and the occasional drug bust. This was a low risk or unknown risk stop for speeding. He radioed in the speeding infraction, made a U-turn in the median and pursued the vehicle.

The driver, Andrew Brannan, stopped his vehicle, exited and started a crazy, dancing jig in the middle of the road while swearing at the officer and shouting `I'm a Vietnam vet." At first, he ignored Dinkheller's commands to step towards the deputy, which always began with `Sir'.

When he finally complied, he attacked the deputy and a scuffle ensued. The deputy implemented the use of his asp and ordered Brannan to `get back'. This procedure was repeated, but after what appeared to be a second scuffle, the suspect returned to his vehicle and retrieved a M-I Carbine from under the seat. The first shots were fired nearly 50 seconds after Brannan returned to his vehicle despite the deputy's commands.

Brannan ignored the repeated commands to put the gun down and Deputy Dinkheller apparently fired the first shot. Brannan, a Vietnam veteran, advanced firing on the deputy. Dinkheller returned fire, but succeeded only in breaking a window in the driver's side of the pickup and wounding Brannan in the stomach. Using `suppressive fire', Brannan systematically, methodically shot Dinkheller in the arms, legs, exposed areas that would not be covered had Dinkheller been wearing a bulletproof vest, slowly executing him. Reloading his weapon Brannan continued firing with the final death shot to Dinkheller's right eye.


Age: 22
Tour of Duty: 4 yr
Badge Number: 37

Cause of Death: Gunfire
Date of Incident: Monday, January 12, 1998
Weapon Used: Rifle; .30 caliber
Suspect Info: Sentenced to death

Deputy Dinkheller was shot and killed after pulling over a man on a rural road about 6 miles north of Dublin, Georgia. During the traffic stop he called in for backup. Before the backup arrived he was shot by the man with a rifle. He was able to return fire, striking the suspect in the stomach. The suspect was found during a search the next morning and taken into custody. The incident was videotaped by an a camera in the cruiser. On January 28, 2000, the suspect was found guilty of murder and on January 30 was sentenced to death.

Deputy Dinkheller is survived by his pregnant wife and 22-month-old daughter. Deputy Dinkheller's son was born in early September, 1998.

[Skiprr]

I believe one important aspect to the change in procedure has nothing to do with the potential actions of the occupants of the stopped vehicle. Studies and reports like LEOKA (Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted) keep track of changing hazards to LEOs, and in the last decade-long study ended 2002, 56% of officers killed accidentally were the result of automobile crashes. There are more drunk and aggressive drivers--and more drivers, period--on the roads now than decades ago, and the crash issue is compounded by a greater percentage of trucks and SUVs on the streets.

Most SOPs call for the officer to stop at least two car-lengths behind the stopped vehicle, but close enough to be able to read the license plate and observe major movements of the occupants. If the stop is on the side of a roadway, the officer angles his front wheels into the direction of traffic. If the cruiser is rear-ended at moderate force, that may be enough to push the car out and away from the officer and the stopped vehicle. But in no case is it advised the officer or the occupants of the stopped car stand between the two vehicles. A high-impact rear-end of the cruiser is likely to injure or kill anyone standing in front of it.

Something that is common procedure is to have the driver exit the car and step to the rear and side if the stopped vehicle has an occupied backseat. That's a judgment call, obviously; a toddler in a car-seat doesn't raise an alarm but a couple of able-bodied males in the rear seat(s) might.

Typically, the officer will never move forward of a line of occupied seats. In other words, if only the front seats are occupied, the officer will stop short of the rear edge of the front window. Something else that's more common now than it was back in the day is for a lone officer to approach on the passenger side if only the front seats of the stopped vehicle are occupied. This presents a problem if an arrest has to be made because the officer will have to reposition back to the dirver's side, but it offers several other advantages.

Just MHO, as always.

[dicion]

All of the above is good information.

However, The problem I have with the Passenger-side approach, which they are doing more and more around here.

My Truck doesn't have power windows or locks, and I have a whole mess of electronics between me and the passenger seat. (Laptop Mount, Ham Radio Mount, phone mounts, etc)
There is really No Way for me to lower the window on the passenger side without unbuckling, crawling completely around my cab, and pretty much sitting there first.

So if he wants to talk to me, he's going to have to come to my drivers side window, which I will gladly lower, manually with the crank, to speak with him.

[Mike1951]

And they have NO sense of humor when you try to communicate that your passenger side power window doesn't work.

[AEA]

In Louisiana they tell you to get out of the car! Ask me how I know!

[gigag04]

If you are in your car (obviously not YOU...but you know...) and decide to do something stupid, most stupid things require you to get out. To do this you have to open the door which I can in turn slam shut. This is just one examply. Also...I can do an entire stop from behind the front window...making you have to turn and look over your shoulder.

I don't want to disclose too many tactics...but generally IMO leaving the occupant in the vehicle keeps them at a tactical disadvantage.

The more tactical advantages in my favor the more likely I am to go home at the end of the shift.

[srothstein]

This is actually a personal preference of the officer, with a lot of the decision based on his experience and the tactics he was taught in the academy.

Some officers (including me) prefer you to stay in the car. I know where you are and exactly how hard it is to attack me while you are in the front seat. My tactics can be based on the knowledge of what a car does to restrict your movements. If you want to see why i prefer this method, pretend you want to shoot someone walking up from the rear and see what is involved in the way of motion. If you can get someone else to do it while you walk up, it is even more obvious how much can be seen. It is easy to shoot out the driver or passenger's window when the officer stands right next to the car, but very hard if he stops just behind the door edge.

Some officers prefer to have you step out of the car and move tot he rear. They do this because they know how easy it is to hide things in your car and to use it as a weapon (the car). They are also aware of how easy it is for a person in a car to try to escape as the officer gets out of his car and walks forward.

Some officers prefer to have you in the car and appraoch from the passenger side. They do this to stay out of traffic and because for a short while it was a fresh enough approach to keep suspects off balance. Most criminals would be watching for the officer by the driver's door.

Very good officers will use a mix of the tactics depending on the situation. For example, if there is a family in the car, I will almost always ask the driver to step out and keep the rest of the family in the car. Men are more likely to resist or argue if they think you are making them look bad in front of their family. Sometimes I approach from the passenger side and sometimes from the drivers side, mostly depending on the stop location and the traffic situation. And a part of this is that i was taught my tactics by officers who emphasized keeping my mind open and not getting into a routine. Their attitude was that tactics are different for every call or stop and to never have set rules on what you are going to do. That made sense to me.

[KD5NRH]

And they have NO sense of humor when you try to communicate that your passenger side power window doesn't work.

Or that the crank on the driver's side is broken off. I had fair luck just opening the door all the way as soon as I stopped, and pointing at the broken crank before the cop was even out of his car, so he could decide what to do before approaching. Most had me step out.

Now that I've got power windows, the driver door is the most likely to decide not to work on a given day, but I can at least roll down the back window and tell him why.

[PUCKER]

My experience from multiple traffic stops (30+) in my younger/dumber/leadfoot years...if it was a TX DPS Trooper they usually asked me to step out of the vehicle...other agencies rarely did this from what I recall. When I'm cruising down the road and I see a TX DPS Trooper with someone pulled over I see the driver out of the vehicle quite often.

[Rex B]

My last time stopped was a Tarrant County deputy, who asked me to step out of the car and stand behind it. after laying my pistol on the seat.

The two previous times (Ft Worth PD, Pelican Bay PD) I was told to stay in the car, even when I was parked in a driveway on my own property.