New Here... relatively new CHL holder, 'notice' question

[Scott in Houston]

No. It's not properly posted. There is no sign as you enter Bass Pro, and if you walk out of Bass Pro straight into Katy Mills, there is no sign there either. The only way to see a sign is to walk into the mall via a mall entrance. If you go in through Bass Pro or one of the other anchor stores, you will not see a sign. I still have not seen a sign in the 10 or so times I've been since getting my CHL and that's because I've entered through Bass Pro each time.

It's doesn't have to be posted at every entrance. It just has to be 'conspicuously' posted. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't properly posted.

Ok. That's the crux of my whole question then. There are those that say if it's not at every door, then you have not been given 'proper notice' until you see the sign.
My original question asks about that very subject.

[LarryH]

However, you are actually aware of the posting at Katy Mills, so once you go into the mall and not Bass Pro who is firearm friendly, you would be in violation.

Correct. I'm aware now. I wasn't until I read the 30.06 web site this morning!
Next time, I'll go shop at Bass Pro, and nobody inside Katy Mills is getting another dime from me.

. . . or you could visit the Bass Pro at Beltway 8 and the South Freeway (288), if it's not too far from you . . .

[chamberc]

No. It's not properly posted. There is no sign as you enter Bass Pro, and if you walk out of Bass Pro straight into Katy Mills, there is no sign there either. The only way to see a sign is to walk into the mall via a mall entrance. If you go in through Bass Pro or one of the other anchor stores, you will not see a sign. I still have not seen a sign in the 10 or so times I've been since getting my CHL and that's because I've entered through Bass Pro each time.

It's doesn't have to be posted at every entrance. It just has to be 'conspicuously' posted. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't properly posted.

Ok. That's the crux of my whole question then. There are those that say if it's not at every door, then you have not been given 'proper notice' until you see the sign.
My original question asks about that very subject.

Until it's tested in court, there isn't a definitive answer.

[Scott in Houston]

No. It's not properly posted. There is no sign as you enter Bass Pro, and if you walk out of Bass Pro straight into Katy Mills, there is no sign there either. The only way to see a sign is to walk into the mall via a mall entrance. If you go in through Bass Pro or one of the other anchor stores, you will not see a sign. I still have not seen a sign in the 10 or so times I've been since getting my CHL and that's because I've entered through Bass Pro each time.

It's doesn't have to be posted at every entrance. It just has to be 'conspicuously' posted. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't properly posted.

Ok. That's the crux of my whole question then. There are those that say if it's not at every door, then you have not been given 'proper notice' until you see the sign.
My original question asks about that very subject.

Until it's tested in court, there isn't a definitive answer.

Well, I guess that's it then. :)
I am going to do my best to make sure I'm not the subject of said test. I've read about 2 places here online that are posted, but I didn't see because of their poor posting.

And I've decided I'm not seeing movies at an AMC theater or buying jewelry at Jarrod's.

[jimlongley]

There is nothing in the statute that says it has to be posted at every entrance, just:

(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Which has been one of my points. While we nitpick the (i) and (ii), we seem to forget that the statute clearly says (B) a sign posted on the property that: and (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. which means only ONE sign, and its placement is almost immaterial.

[chamberc]

There is nothing in the statute that says it has to be posted at every entrance, just:

(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Which has been one of my points. While we nitpick the (i) and (ii), we seem to forget that the statute clearly says (B) a sign posted on the property that: and (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. which means only ONE sign, and its placement is almost immaterial.

BINGO... Exactly.

Something else I would add, if you've posted here or somewhere else on the Internet that you're aware of a valid posting, you've made a record all time that will be used in a court case should it ever come to that...

As always, that being said, concealed is concealed.

[Scott in Houston]

No doubt. Once I'm aware I would never carry. Now I'm no longer going to Katy Mills except for Bass Pro.
It's pathetic that I had to learn of the sign on the internet.

[cbunt1]

No. It's not properly posted. There is no sign as you enter Bass Pro, and if you walk out of Bass Pro straight into Katy Mills, there is no sign there either. The only way to see a sign is to walk into the mall via a mall entrance. If you go in through Bass Pro or one of the other anchor stores, you will not see a sign. I still have not seen a sign in the 10 or so times I've been since getting my CHL and that's because I've entered through Bass Pro each time.

It's doesn't have to be posted at every entrance. It just has to be 'conspicuously' posted. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't properly posted.

Ok. That's the crux of my whole question then. There are those that say if it's not at every door, then you have not been given 'proper notice' until you see the sign.
My original question asks about that very subject.

Until it's tested in court, there isn't a definitive answer.

Well, I guess that's it then. :)
I am going to do my best to make sure I'm not the subject of said test. I've read about 2 places here online that are posted, but I didn't see because of their poor posting.

And I've decided I'm not seeing movies at an AMC theater or buying jewelry at Jarrod's.

And *that* is indeed the definitive answer. To me that's a sign that says I'm not welcome. I personally won't do business in any establishment that goes out of the way to make it clear that I'm not welcome.

Gun shows are my only exception to that rule...

[jmra]

I would by no means want to be a test case. But I would be willing to bet that the person who becomes the test case (where the sign is not worded correctly and he was not aware of the posting because he entered via an entrance that is not posted) would not have to spend a dime of his own money on his defense. I can think of several organizations that are just itching to get their hands on a case like that. The only down side is if you lose. But it might well be a case that would make it to at least the state supreme court.

[jmaynard]

However, you are actually aware of the posting at Katy Mills, so once you go into the mall and not Bass Pro who is firearm friendly, you would be in violation.

Keith, you continue to post wrong information here. If you enter a facility and fail to leave because you learn after the fact that they are posted you are NOT in violation. Yes, you can be arrested but any lawyer worth his salt will get you home before lunch. ALL entrances MUST be posted or the signs must be visible to the general public. If this were not the rule any business could post in their back room and have youarrested immedatly AFTER you made your purchases. There is letter and intent of the law. Failure to post at all entrances is not specifically in the letter but it IS in the intent. If you are not made aware of the notification it is unresaonable to make a criminal case after the fact. We have a little thing called due process in the US.

[Keith B]

However, you are actually aware of the posting at Katy Mills, so once you go into the mall and not Bass Pro who is firearm friendly, you would be in violation.

Keith, you continue to post wrong information here. If you enter a facility and fail to leave because you learn after the fact that they are posted you are NOT in violation. Yes, you can be arrested but any lawyer worth his salt will get you home before lunch. ALL entrances MUST be posted or the signs must be visible to the general public. If this were not the rule any business could post in their back room and have youarrested immedatly AFTER you made your purchases. There is letter and intent of the law. Failure to post at all entrances is not specifically in the letter but it IS in the intent. If you are not made aware of the notification it is unresaonable to make a criminal case after the fact. We have a little thing called due process in the US.

First off, I notice you are new here. Welcome to the forum from a Moderator.

My information is NOT incorrect. As you stated, there is no place that states ALL entrances must be posted. You must receive notification either via 30.06, oral or written notice that you are not permitted. Once you receive that notice, then you must leave, period. If you enter and see a 30.06 sign in the building, my advice is reverse march right out of there. And, if you are aware the location is posted, you are in violation of 30.06 by entering. Intent may be there, but as always you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride or the cost of fighting it.

Also, this is a Simon Company mall. Their Grapevine Mills location is improperly posted, but the Grapevine Police WILL charge you with criminal trespass if found carrying there and let the lawyers and the Judge figure out the intent.

[Abraham]

The word "Conspicuous" doesn't reconcile with common sense.

If every entrance isn't posted - they must think the public clairvoyant.

"Theatre of the Absurd" at it's finest or maybe just "Orwellian".

Take your pick.

[Keith B]

The word "Conspicuous" doesn't reconcile with common sense.

If every entrance isn't posted - they must think the public clairvoyant.

"Theatre of the Absurd" at it's finest or maybe just "Orwellian".

Take your pick.

Don't try to bring common sense into this!

As we all know, there are locations that are not posted with common sense. And yes, you would have a defense if arrested because you didn't get proper notification and were unaware of the restriction. However, once you ARE notified, you must retreat or potentially be arrested for failure to leave.