7 killed at Ft Hood shooting

[marksiwel]

Purplehood is 100% correct about the dirtbags one finds in the Army. The very guy who is supposed to be covering your flank is going to be the first one to steal from you. There's still a lot of soldiers in the Army under the "join the Army or go to jail" program. I even had one of those guys working for me.

I thought they werent allowed to do that anymore (the jail thing)?

[Purplehood]

Purplehood is 100% correct about the dirtbags one finds in the Army. The very guy who is supposed to be covering your flank is going to be the first one to steal from you. There's still a lot of soldiers in the Army under the "join the Army or go to jail" program. I even had one of those guys working for me.

I thought they werent allowed to do that anymore (the jail thing)?

They legally are not (and it has been that way for a number of years), but any Recruiter with a little initiative can get around it.

A little note on that also...dirtbags don't have to necessarily be those avoiding jail sentences. A Recruiter rarely comes across a qualified candidate for enlistment that sticks out as a potential thief, rapist, murderer or the like. You simply don't know them. (I was a Recruiter for 3 years also)

[casingpoint]

Was the Army afraid to say, "He is not qualified for advancement" for some particular reason?

The Army is hedging. Could be there are enough Muslims in the ranks now to cause big problems with manpower and stability if they become agitated on duty, or get discharged en mass. For those reasons, the military has to make Fort Hood out to be a non-terrorist event attributable to one man in order maintain the status quo.

[joe817]

"Army: Fort Hood suspect charged with murder: FORT HOOD, TEXAS – The Army psychiatrist accused in the Fort Hood shootings was charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder in the military's legal system, making him eligible for the death penalty if convicted, officials said Thursday."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091112/ap_ ... d_shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well no surprise there, but an interesting article. Looks like things are heating up in the Congressional probe arena.

[57Coastie]

Very interesting, Joe. The news is starting to dribble out. I found it particularly interesting that Hasan apparently had 8 years enlisted and 12 commissioned. Normally one with that length of service could have retired, although it is possible, if not likely, that his obligation was extended due to his lengthy period of education by the Army.

The more answers we get the more questions we are left with. I'm sure the wise old men in the congress will fix things up.

Thanx for sharing with us,

Jim

[joe817]

Normally one with that length of service could have retired, although it is possible,

Coastie, that's exactlywhat I thought when I first saw it. Why in the world would he stay in? He could've retired on a good pension then gone on with the rest of his life, and be rid of the "abuse" he claims to have received for staying in. Criminy, he was only 39!

edit to add: I just saw the rest of you sentence after the work "retired". Yeah, quite likely.

[casingpoint]

the FBI learned late last year of Hasan's repeated contact with a radical Muslim cleric who encouraged Muslims to kill U.S. troops in Iraq

Hasan wasn't in Iraq, but he was in a unique position to kill U.S. troops on their native soil. He may have simply hung around in the Army waiting for the right opportunity, and connected last week. This guy was sane, he attacked on behalf of radical Islam, and he had a battle plan developed under the broad umbrella of Al Qaeda. I think people who believe Hasan acted alone and just flipped out mentally are fooling themselves. And that includes the U.S. Army, the Dept. of Defense, specifically Robert Gates and every other gutless wonderment up the chain of command all the way up to the Oval Office. How long it is before the next similar event here in the U.S.? The clock is ticking, and time is running out if they don't clean the house.

[57Coastie]

Howdy, casingpoint, from a "gutless wonderment," which I translate as "coward." I have been accused of many things in my much too long life, but never that. I will not accept anyone suggesting that I am getting too personal here on the forum, when such an insulting charge is leveled at me along with, up to this point at least, our national uniformed leadership.

Do I understand you to say that it took this man 20 years in the Army to find the "right opportunity?" What better argument for his mental incompetence could there be?

If we both live long enough for one of us to collect, I will bet you a whole nickle that this sorely conflicted man did indeed "flip out," with the ultimate finding, apparently to be made by a court-martial, being that he is either acquitted on the ground of mental incapacity or he never even goes to trial on the ground that his mental state does not permit him to assist his defense lawyer. My personal view is that he, so far at least, failed in his effort at "suicide by cop."

With respect,

Jim

[casingpoint]

57 coastie,

Allow me to be more specific. First, you obviously aren't in the chain of command I referred to, and my post was no personal attack on you.

Secondly, Hasan attempted to leave military service some years ago, and was refused. But after his twenty years were in, he decided to linger, and one must ask, why? The answer is that by that time, Hasan had suckered for the radical Islamic dogma and desired to stay in the service until he could effect some jihad event, which he did on Nov. 5, 2009, killing 13 people and wounding thirty.

Again, this was no personal attack, and I remain at a loss as to how you construed it as such.

[57Coastie]

57 coastie,

Allow me to be more specific. First, you obviously aren't in the chain of command I referred to, and my post was no personal attack on you.

Secondly, Hasan attempted to leave military service some years ago, and was refused. But after his twenty years were in, he decided to linger, and one must ask, why? The answer is that by that time, Hasan had suckered for the radical Islamic dogma and desired to stay in the service until he could effect some jihad event, which he did on Nov. 5, 2009, killing 13 people and wounding thirty.

Again, this was no personal attack, and I remain at a loss as to how you construed it as such.

A question, casingpoint. Please share with me the source for your statement that he "decided to linger" rather than that he was (and why we do not yet know) refused an exit? I have read everything I have managed to come across on this incident, and this is the very first time I have heard this even suggested by anyone, not even as a rumor, much less as a fact, as you do. Let me assure you that just "becoming eligible for retirement" does not mean a commissioned officer can retire at his personal whim. I can give you myself as an example.

If you have support for that statement I would suggest that you contact Fort Hood immediately so that they can share that bit of info, plus all the other allegations you state as facts -- not as opinions -- as facts. You owe that to your country, as the U. S. Army, the FBI, and the White House continue to take undeserved flak, continuing an unnecessary and expensive investigation, when you can solve their problem immediately.

If you do not wish to help our government with this problem, just send your evidence for those statements of yours to me by PM. I would be happy to forward them for you -- naming the source, of course. I'm sure you would get their prompt attention.

With all due respect,

Jim

[casingpoint]

I know nothing about this other than what has been presented in the media. Hasan's records have been sealed, and it is not possible to define, in the media, much less this message board, the timeline of any discharge requests at this point. It is likely Hasan was denied discharge due to an obligation of service or that a deployment was pending. However it went down, and perhaps my earlier statements were overreaching, Hasan remained on active duty and had time to foment the details of this terrible act against his fellow soldiers. If the U.S. Army wants my help in figuring all this out, I'd be more than willing to furnish them with my military service I.D. number and lend an hand. God knows the Army and that chain of command need some help in this respect, because I don't think from their statements that some of the people currently in position fully understand what they're dealing with, and I'm talking about all the way to the top.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 9111127361" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/11/ ... 257485260/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[C-dub]

I don't know if Hasan was planning this all along or not. If he was I think his time table may have been pushed up due to his impending deployment. He could have done this much earlier and inflicted much more devastation if he had done this at Walter Reed. Think of all the doctors he could have killed. Didn't he give lectures to other medical professionals? He could have done it there.

In the video of him in his robe getting coffee the morning of the killings he appeared relaxed. I do agree that he did not intend to survive the day. I don't think he snapped, but I don't have any idea why he chose this time.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

IF IF IF it was an extremist muslim motivated attack.

This was the perfect place and time. He killed and wounded soldiers that were on their way to fight in the IZ. What good would it have done to attack the soldiers at Walter Reed (not meant to irritate)? They are already wounded. The doctors arent fighting in the IZ either...ATT.

He did however limit the ability of some units that are on their way to fight.

I am in no way saying this was or was not an extremist muslim motivated attack

[joe817]

This was the perfect place and time. He killed and wounded soldiers that were on their way to fight in the IZ. What good would it have done to attack the soldiers at Walter Reed (not meant to irritate)? They are already wounded. The doctors arent fighting in the IZ either...ATT. He did however limit the ability of some units that are on their way to fight.

VERY good point XtremeDuty.45!

[srothstein]

On a different note, I have a request. I was talking with some people on another forum and found that the soldiers shot at Ft. Hood and the ones killed in Arkansas are not eligible for the Purple Heart. It requires that the act be international terrorism, which is defined as having occurred outside the US. I think this is wrong so I sent the following to both John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchison:

I recently found that the soldiers shot at Ft. Hood will not be eligible for the Purple Heart medal since the terrorist attack occurred inside the US.

I think these soldiers and the ones killed in Arkansas recently both deserve to be properly recognized. Could you sponsor a change to the law to make them eligible for the Purple Heart. It could be one simple line to add persons injured as a result of acts of domestic terrorism after Sep. 11, 2001 (many of our awards started on that date).

I kind of sidestepped whether or not this is a terrorist act by assuming it was. Even this change may not make them eligible if people continue to deny this was terrorism. But there is no way anyone could truly deny the Arkansas recruiting station incident. I think this change should be implemented even if this incident does not get ruled terrorism.

So I am asking all of you to also send notes to the Senators if you agree. I did not send it to my representative since I don't think he would support it anyway, but you could add your representative if they would support it.