7 killed at Ft Hood shooting

[Keith]

First off I want to send my prayers to all the families who have suffered from this incident. Without being rude I would like to add a few comments. The 5.7 handgun seems like the usual small high velocity round. Using speed and penetration to be effective as compared to bullet mass or size of the hole. These guns will probably banned now even though it took a knuckle head to pull the trigger the gun didnt shoot itself. For all the anti gunners out there I would like to point out that the way they stopped this man was with a gun. Its the same reason we all have guns here. We know its the most effective way to defend ourselves and our families. If someone breaks into my home with a gun I must have a gun also to stop this person just like they did at Fort Hood. They didnt use Pepper Spray,Bean Bag shot. They used a gun to defend themselves. Ban guns and only the bad people will have them. When they enter my home I will be unable to stop them. If the awesome soilders had there duty handguns on them im sure it would have been a different outcome with less lives lost. God Bless and long live the 2nd ammendment. For the ones who say call 911 are you prepared to wait for help as a bad person walks room to room doing what he/she wants to do because you cant stop it.

[A-R]

I am by no means an expert on the 5.7x28mm round, nor the FN Five SeveN handgun. But I've seen/held one at a gun shop, and also seen/held other FN firearms (the P90 bullpup rifle) that use this round.

Five SeveN - http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
P90 - http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=262" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A guy at a local shooting range showed me the P90, a "bullpup" design, and it has a remarkable magazine mounted horizontally on top of the weapon that holds - I think - 50 or more rounds. He said he's fired a P90 and they were very fun to shoot, with even less recoil than the light-recoiling 5.56x45mm NATO round from an AR-15 type weapon.

Guessing a bit here, but seems to me this round was meant to be a replacement or alternative to the standard 5.56x45mm NATO round (FN web site lists 5.7x28 as "NATO recommended", whatever that means). The fact that FN was able to adabpt the same round for both a bullpup assault rifle and a handgun leads me to believe the whole development is intended as some sort of NATO catch-all round for urban combat and law enforcement/SWAT purposes.

Anyway, it's certainly a very deadly and viable cartridge. Bet that gun has some kick to it. Imagine firing a slightly tamer 5.56mm round from handgun?!?!

[A-R]

So, the latest is that the shooting only lasted about 3 minutes? The last report I heard this morning was that it lasted for almost 30 minutes.

Reading between the lines of all the reports I've heard today, the 3-minute response time is from the time the first 911 call was received, understood, routed. Who knows how long it took before someone was able to actually dial 911. I'd guess a total active shooter time frame of at least 10-15 minutes.

[philip964]

I would like to express my sincerest sympathy for the families of these brave men who were killed or wounded. I suspect many were not all from Texas but were from all parts of the country, the families are probably being notified and soon the true horror of what has happened will be known.

We will have young faces to place with the cold numbers that are being released. This is such tragedy and near Killeen, Texas of all places for this to happen.

I read this thread in shock as the FN 57 was mentioned. I hope this is not the case, I was hoping it would be some ordinary handgun.

I am old, but very new to shooting. As I met fellow shooters, one thing I found in common was that most had a lot more handguns than they wanted, always trying to find the perfect one. Not wanting to do that, a friend brought me to the range and let me fire all different kinds of handguns. I found the FN 57 to be the gun I could shoot the most accurately. It had very little recoil.

The bullets were very small. I was somewhat concerned that it did not have enough stopping power and that the ammunition was hard to get. After some research on the weapon, I found that it was at least as powerful as a 9mm and potentially much more lethal. The magazine carries 20 bullets and three come with the gun. The bullets expand rapidly and they tend to not over penetrate. It is used by many swat teams for this reason.

The bullets are made in many configurations. The body armor penetrating bullets are not available for sale to citizens. The bullets are essentially rifle bullets and FN sells a semiautomatic and fully automatic rifle that uses the same ammo.

There was a concern that this gun would be the first one banned after the election.

If the terrorist who perpetrated this horrific event was carrying a FN 57, this is very telling as the gun is expensive - $1200, which is a lot for a plastic gun that is no fancier than a Glock.

Where I was analysing the gun for home defense, the terrorist obviously realized the large magazine, accuracy, and lethality of the bullet would maximize the carnage one individual could do in a short period of time.

This was the act not of a mad man but a very calculating individual bent on destruction.

I just hope the terrorist is blamed not the gun.

[chabouk]

The Five-seveN and 5.7x28 will be further demonized, but it was irrelevant: no one was wearing armor. Okay, perhaps the police who responded were wearing armor, but the one who was shot was hit in the thigh.

There have been revolvers and even one semi-auto (AMT Auto-Mag III) chambered in .30 carbine, which will definitely defeat Level III body armor. So will 7.62x25, available by the case all over the country, and usable in any of the hundreds of thousands of Tokarevs and Cz-52s out there. The 7.62x25 is hotter than, but physically the same as, .30 Mauser, which in turn was based on the 7.65x25 Borchardt.

That's right: ammo designed in 1893 will defeat standard police body armor in 2009.

[mr surveyor]

The Five-seveN and 5.7x28 will be further demonized, but it was irrelevant: no one was wearing armor. Okay, perhaps the police who responded were wearing armor, but the one who was shot was hit in the thigh.

There have been revolvers and even one semi-auto (AMT Auto-Mag III) chambered in .30 carbine, which will definitely defeat Level III body armor. So will 7.62x25, available by the case all over the country, and usable in any of the hundreds of thousands of Tokarevs and Cz-52s out there. The 7.62x25 is hotter than, but physically the same as, .30 Mauser, which in turn was based on the 7.65x25 Borchardt.

That's right: ammo designed in 1893 will defeat standard police body armor in 2009.

and funny thing is.... none of the above meets the minimum caliber requirements for CHL range qualification!


surv

[surprise_i'm_armed]

http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr ... ted_gunman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a picture and some info on the 34 year old female LEO who shot the madman.

SIA

[Keith]

To the female officer who stopped the man great job!!!!! It's an honor to read what you did in the time of danger to save lives.

[casingpoint]

Kimberly Munley is an Aggie with a gun.
http://blogs.chron.com/newswatch/2009/1 ... ified.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As former A&M coach Gene Stallings would say, "You done good, girl."

[tfrazier]

From an article on the Fox News web site today:

The 21-year-old Fort Worth native quickly grabbed the civilian worker who'd been helping with his paperwork and forced her under the desk. He lay low for several minutes, waiting for the shooter to run out of ammunition and wishing he, too, had a gun.

It's just plain criminal for a United States soldier to be lying under a desk in a combat situation without a gun. I don't care if he's in Iraq, Afghanistan, Texas, or on Mars. He and all his fellow troops should have been allowed to tote. We trust them with guns everywhere in the world except their own home...where those who obey orders and live within the confines of the law are at the mercy of those who do not.

Shameful.

[ammo two]

From an article on the Fox News web site today:

The 21-year-old Fort Worth native quickly grabbed the civilian worker who'd been helping with his paperwork and forced her under the desk. He lay low for several minutes, waiting for the shooter to run out of ammunition and wishing he, too, had a gun.

It's just plain criminal for a United States soldier to be lying under a desk in a combat situation without a gun. I don't care if he's in Iraq, Afghanistan, Texas, or on Mars. He and all his fellow troops should have been allowed to tote. We trust them with guns everywhere in the world except their own home...where those who obey orders and live within the confines of the law are at the mercy of those who do not.

Shameful.

Agree, whole-heartedly!

[boomerang]

I'm still not thinking straight so I'll keep this short.

1. This tragedy is another example of the effect of "gun control" in the real world.

2. The 5.7 is very similar to the 22 rimfire magnum in velocity and muzzle energy.

[iratollah]

Anyone who doesn't by now think it's about Islam and religious war, with the new front line in America, has a rude awakening coming:

If one reads Surah and Hadith, it is difficult to accept that this heinous act was anything less than jihad. It's shameful to watch MSM avoid reality.

Check out Article 15 of the Hamas Charter, an organization that claims Quran as basis for their activities and goals.

http://www.bridgehouston.org/newsletter/page4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[marksiwel]

Did McVeigh wage a Crusade when he blew up the OKC building? no, he's just crazy pants, same with this Dirtbag

[Oldgringo]

Did McVeigh wage a Crusade when he blew up the OKC building?

I dunno', did he? For that matter, what do we really know about the John Kennedy shooting? What we do know about the John Kennedy thing is that all of the known participants are dead.

I tend to believe that the Ft. Hood shooter knew exactly what he was doing and why. Our current administration wants to downplay this guy's background as they have downplayed other aspects/background of er,...uh well, you know.

No, I don't think that I'm a "conspiracy theorist". I truly fear that there are enemies within, perhaps more than ever before in our history. As republics go, the U.S. is the longest living and history does repeat itself.

On a brighter note, this massacre at Ft. Hood should open eyes to the fact that this atrocity could happen anywhere at anytime and maybe, just maybe having a few CHL's in the crowd could be a good thing? As was said earlier, the victims, our soldiers, were defenseless during this massacre and that is a great shame and someone somewhere should be held accountable.

That's my 2¢ worth on this subject. May God bless and comfort the victims and their families, Amen.