7 killed at Ft Hood shooting

[edmart001]

This entire event has saddened me so much I really couldn't post anything until now, over 24 hours later. My condolences and prayers go out to all those impacted, the fallen and wounded and their families and friends. And my never ending thanks go out once again to those who have chosen to serve and their families.

I know first hand the stress caused from having an immediate family member on active duty in these times. And I understand that "home base" is supposed to be a safe secure place where those loved ones are supposed to be the protected, not "on guard" and the protectors. And to have this crime perpetrated by one of their own who is an officer, I guess this is what makes this event so unsettling to me. It just says to me that we can never really stop being vigilant. I can't imagine the pain with which family members of the fallen and wounded must be dealing.

The more recent accounts I've seen say that soldiers reverted to their training, were providing life saving care to the wounded immediately and if that hadn't been the case, the death toll would have undoubtedly been higher. I applaud the professionalism and courage of these fine young men and women. I thank you and all those before you for your service and I pray God Speed for each and every one.

[baseballguy2001]

Two things I would say about this whole thing. I've seen it on a few different channels, The Army, the FBI, the talking heads, all are very reluctant to call this an act of terrorism. I don't understand that at all. It sure sounds like it fits my definition of terrorism. I just saw on CNN that a reporter has found out one of the guns used was an FN 5.7 semi auto. I wasn't familiar with that model and looked it up. It seems to be a fairly new caliber, 5.7mm, and quite an expensive weapon. ($900-$1200) The other weapon was a revolver, caliber unknown.

[Oldgringo]

Two things I would say about this whole thing. I've seen it on a few different channels, The Army, the FBI, the talking heads, all are very reluctant to call this an act of terrorism. I don't understand that at all. It sure sounds like it fits my definition of terrorism. I just saw on CNN that a reporter has found out one of the guns used was an FN 5.7 semi auto. I wasn't familiar with that model and looked it up. It seems to be a fairly new caliber, 5.7mm, and quite an expensive weapon. ($900-$1200) The other weapon was a revolver, caliber unknown.

I looked it up on BUD's and it has quite a reference following and sells for <$1,000. Inasmuch as other more familiar ammo has been, and some still is, in short supply. Where does one buy 5.7x28 mm ammunition?

[C-dub]

Wow. According to these guys http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; this thing will defeat most personal body armor. Wouldn't this be an illegal weapon in the US for this reason?

[tfrazier]

...Wouldn't this be an illegal weapon in the US for this reason?

I don't think so. After all, until recently most soft body armor wouldn't stop a .22LR shot out of a Ruger target pistol. Larger diameter bullets, stopped no prob, but the .22LR just parted the Kevlar weave like an ice pick.

[74novaman]

Wow. According to these guys http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; this thing will defeat most personal body armor. Wouldn't this be an illegal weapon in the US for this reason?

It will pierce body armor with "military grade ammunition". the standard 5.7 ammo you can buy off the shelves in the US isn't rated to pierce body armor, if I recall correctly . It is an interesting pistol and caliber though.

[C-dub]

I wondered. It's not "armor piercing" so I wasn't sure. Other than being difficult to find ammo for this thing sounds like one heck of a handgun. 20 rounds and 30% lighter than most other 9mm handguns.

[C-dub]

It will pierce body armor with "military grade ammunition". the standard 5.7 ammo you can buy off the shelves in the US isn't rated to pierce body armor, if I recall correctly . It is an interesting pistol and caliber though.

Pardon my ignorance. What is the difference in military grade ammo?

[marksiwel]

saw this about the 5.7
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1670546/posts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Police executed a court-authorized raid of the home of William Davis, 21, brother Clarence Davis, 18, and friend Gquan Lloyd, 18, Wednesday morning and found a notoriously powerful Fabrique Nationale 5.7 handgun along with another less-powerful handgun and a bag of cocaine, according to DA Richard Brown. The gun, called a "cop killer" by many for its ability to pierce 48 layers of bullet-proof Kevlar, is the first of its type to be recovered by authorities in New York City.

"The FN 5.7 is a lethal handgun imported from Belgium and capable of easily penetrating most police vets and plates," Brown said. "While this is the first time that such a deadly weapon has been recovered in New York City, its presence is troubling and makes the job of street cops that much more dangerous." Since 1994, 425 of the 616 police officers killed in the line of duty have been killed with a FN 5.7, the DA said.



That sounds like bull to me.

Also doesnt Kevlar only work when its being bent (like on a Torso) and not just layed on top of each other?
Also aint very bullet proof it cant stop bullets

[karder]

The FN Five-seveN is a popular pistol here on the border. The are expensive, but not illegal. The ammo is pretty widely available, you can even get it at Cabelas. FN sales it as a military pistol with the capability of piercing body armor, but that is only with full load 5.7x28mm. In the US, these rounds are not for sale. You have to get what they term "sporting" rounds which to my understanding are water downed 5.7x28mm. The inability to legally use full scale 5.7x28mm makes it, in my opinion, a curiosity weapon. Very cool, high capacity, and unique, but probably not more deadly than what any of us are currently carrying in our belts right now. They are hugely popular with the Mexican cartel in Juarez specifically because of their armor piercing capabilities with the real ammo. It is not exactly on my short list, but I guess I better pick up one before they make it illegal.

[marksiwel]

The FN Five-seveN is a popular pistol here on the border. The are expensive, but not illegal. The ammo is pretty widely available, you can even get it at Cabelas. FN sales it as a military pistol with the capability of piercing body armor, but that is only with full load 5.7x28mm. In the US, these rounds are not for sale. You have to get what they term "sporting" rounds which to my understanding are water downed 5.7x28mm. The inability to legally use full scale 5.7x28mm makes it, in my opinion, a curiosity weapon. Very cool, high capacity, and unique, but probably not more deadly than what any of us are currently carrying in our belts right now. They are hugely popular with the Mexican cartel in Juarez specifically because of their armor piercing capabilities with the real ammo. It is not exactly on my short list, but I guess I better pick up one before they make it illegal.

So if you handload our own ammo, could make it AP? its gotta be more complicated than that right? I guess the Cartels are getting it from their contacts in the Mexican Military or as the Dems would say "The Gun Show loophole"

[howdy]

Impact guns has the FN Five-seveN USG 5.7X28mm available for $1049. It comes with 3-20 round magazines. The ammo is on backorder and expensive. This handgun also has a magazine extension that make it hold 30 rounds. It shoots a 33-40 grain bullet at about 1800 fps. I hope this link works. http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=f ... emb=0&aq=f#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[57Coastie]

Some more on 5.7x28 mm ammo:
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/s ... t1209.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jim

[casingpoint]

he Army, the FBI, the talking heads, all are very reluctant to call this an act of terrorism

It's Islamic terrorism when it happens in Britain, Spain, Bali. Here, it's simply a guy gone off his rocker. And, of course, there is no connection to Islam whatsoever.

If you believe all that, perhaps I can sell you some Hope before it runs out.

Anyone who doesn't by now think it's about Islam and religious war, with the new front line in America, has a rude awakening coming:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/fort-hood- ... wardice/2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/07/magaz ... s-war.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


And the FN 5.7? It must be what the manufacturer says it is.

[karder]

[/quote]
So if you handload our own ammo, could make it AP? its gotta be more complicated than that right? I guess the Cartels are getting it from their contacts in the Mexican Military or as the Dems would say "The Gun Show loophole" [/quote]

That is an interesting question, and one I never thought about. I guess the answer would be yes. There are guys here a lot more knowledgeable than I on subjects such as these, but all that is happening here is the manufacturer is taking a really small bullet and pushing it very fast. I believe around 2200 fps or more. The sporting ammo is just a lighter load, so logic would suggest that a knowledgeable hand-loader could replicate a full power load and get the bullet back up to speed.

As far as the Mexicans, they get their full power ammo from China and Russia along with the vast majority of weapons they are using. Despite what the media and leftist politicians would have us believe, they are not getting their AK47s, FNs and korean made hand grenades from straw buyers in the US. As if guys who are running a billion dollar industry can't buy guns by the boat load from the Chinese, and are forced to buy them one at a time from U.S. citizens!!! That is about the biggest bunch of nonsense I can imagine. Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world, and look at the violence down there. So naturally, the left wing wants us to believe that putting the same gun control over here, would not only make us safer, but make Mexico's failed policy actually work.