Restaurant Robbers

[surprise_i'm_armed]

randomoutburst:

You have been given notice at work that you can't carry?
I am wondering whether this is a blanket policy that all new employees are made
aware of, or have you been vocal about your 2A rights?

At such time you get your CHL, start carrying an LCP or something else small
that you can conceal well while working, and let no one know that you carry.

If your place never gets robbed - great! If your place does get robbed, you have
some options. You can always get another job - you can't get another life.

There are multiple forum members who are forbidden from carrying at work by
company policy - but we do anyway. Our corporate overlords will not protect us
at a critical time.

Don't let signs run your life (except 30.06 of course!).

SIA

[randomoutburst]

There is no blanket policy that new employees are made aware of, that is only what I was told when I asked.
There is no 30.06 sign and I can't find documentation anywhere that says we aren't allowed and I am considering contesting it once I can carry. Regardless, I will probably carry anyway. It will be my normal carry though, not the LCP or any other "pocket" pistol.

It still upsets me though because there is no real reason for them to deny the right.

[C-dub]

Okay. If someone is given verbal notice, but does not have a CHL, is it still "notice" when they eventually do have their CHL? Or do they have to be told again?

Wouldn't now, while Random doesn't have a CHL, be a better time to challenge the policy?

[dicion]

Okay. If someone is given verbal notice, but does not have a CHL, is it still "notice" when they eventually do have their CHL? Or do they have to be told again?

Wouldn't now, while Random doesn't have a CHL, be a better time to challenge the policy?

There is really no 'statute of limitations' on 30.06, however, the law states that it only applies to license holders. So at the time, it would not apply to him. Also, Verbal notice is hard to prove. Especially if it is just his word against someone else's. If there were other people present, then it becomes a little more tricky. Also, 30.06 has the requirement that verbal notice has to be from someone with the authority to make that decision. If it was his manager, and not someone who has actual control of the building, then it could be argued that he was just reciting policy, and did not have the actual authority to do anything.

Lots of greyness here. Hence why it is better to follow the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy :)

[randomoutburst]

I agree, I'll probably not bring it up at all and just carry unless/until I'm told that I'm not allowed. Then I'll raise hell.
I sent off an anonymous question to the company (not the store) to see what answer I get.
I wrote: "Are employees of _____ in Texas allowed to carry a concealed handgun while at work provided they are properly licensed and carry their CHL identification with them? I have never seen a "30.06" sign prohibiting guests from legally carrying a concealed handgun and wondered if it extends to its employees as well. Thanks in advance for your quick response!"
Obviously we're already required to carry the license, but just to make it crystal clear to someone who may not otherwise know...

I'll post their response if/when I receive it.


(And I'm a 'she'. Hehe. )

[dicion]

Sorry! My bad!

[surprise_i'm_armed]

randomoutburst:

You may wish to cease any 2A inquiries of your own site's management,
or your chain's upper management.

Because usually any request to carry at work will be met with a 'no' that
may then constitute verbal notice.

If you don't ask for permission, they haven't said no.

The old saying is "It's better to ask for forgivenness than permission."

Good luck. Be vewwy vewwy quiet about your 2A rights.

SIA

[randomoutburst]

I like the company I work for and employees are treated well in general but I am, after all, a waitress so finding another job at a different company wouldn't be all too upsetting. I just found out that we're going to be moving soon anyway so I have yet to decide if a transfer is worth it considering what kind of city I'm moving from (big and rich) and what kind of city I'm moving into (small and po-dunk). I could see my earnings drop at least 40% and if that's the case, this whole CC at work is a moot point as I'll just find a different job.
I'm not intending to press the matter after receiving a response to the email I sent to them. I'm really more curious to see the wording and attitude of the response than the actual response.

(One good thing about moving will be a huge decrease in housing costs which means more gun money...which of course makes me happy!)

[jlangton]

Keith wrote:

...I will not sit at any restuarant without facing the door. My wife thinks im nuts...

You too?

Myself as well. But my wife doesn't think I'm crazy and even picks seating to get me a good view of the entryway when she has the option.
JL

[hurst_guy]

This is why I come here. Were a scenario (God forbid ) like this to happen, I feel I would already be one step ahead. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance.
I would have no problem handing my wallet, money and phone over. I would not fire in this scenario, unless we were being moved and it became clear this was esculating. I carry a Sig 239, 9mm, 8 plus 1 in the tube and generally a Kahr CW 40, 6 plus 1 in the pocket. I think with multiple targets the outcome at best would be in doubt, but I am one deadly son of a "gun",
and it would cost them.
Hats off to everyone here, it's nice to be able to hear the words of like minded ciizens.

[ClarkLZeuss]

Throwing my hat into the ring here (in response to the original scenario). One idea I thought of would be to quietly draw my weapon and hold in under the table while the BGs are walking around grabbing wallets. I think I could hold it so that it wouldn't be visible from above (by the BGs) but may be visible from the side (by GGs), especially if I am on the end of a table. Then, what I would do is look around for other people who look not scared, but angry, and hopefully find another CHLer or a plainclothes cop. I would motion with my eyes to my gun, and then to the BG that I intend to shoot, then either let him/her pick a target in a similar manner or else I assign one. I'd then signal to attack on 3, then count to 3, then attack in unison. This, I think, would prove much more effective against a gang robbery, to have 2 of their number go down at the same time, with more coming. I think it has a good chance to scare the others away, for having even one other ally makes the surprise attack seem that much more menacing.

Of course, all the usual disclaimers apply. I don't know whether I'd actually be able to do this or whether I'd just keep sitting there, hoping they won't come by my table or hurt me. I don't know if I'd be angry and determined enough to act, or too scared to think. I don't know if I'd be able to find another CHLer, who's willing to act, or for that matter a plainclothes or off-duty cop, and even if I did, they might want to do things differently or otherwise take the lead. And I don't know whether a counterattack really would scare off the remaining live gang members. As that video of the bar shootout in Illinois demonstrates, some of these guys love a good firefight. (Course, in that case, the motivation to fight may have had to do more with alcohol or honor, rather than rapid cash acquisition). So, as others have said, I of course have no idea if this little idea of mine would work out.

But I figure, having a plan, or at least the workings of one, couldn't hurt.

[Jungle Work]

6 Bad Boys, Crowded Restrurant,

Give them your wallet and be nice.
Unless they are gonna hurt you or yours.
Then shoot everybody who is a bad guy several times if possible.....just so they quit doing the "bad".

Jungle Work

[Kythas]

Throwing my hat into the ring here (in response to the original scenario). One idea I thought of would be to quietly draw my weapon and hold in under the table while the BGs are walking around grabbing wallets. I think I could hold it so that it wouldn't be visible from above (by the BGs) but may be visible from the side (by GGs), especially if I am on the end of a table. Then, what I would do is look around for other people who look not scared, but angry, and hopefully find another CHLer or a plainclothes cop. I would motion with my eyes to my gun, and then to the BG that I intend to shoot, then either let him/her pick a target in a similar manner or else I assign one. I'd then signal to attack on 3, then count to 3, then attack in unison. This, I think, would prove much more effective against a gang robbery, to have 2 of their number go down at the same time, with more coming. I think it has a good chance to scare the others away, for having even one other ally makes the surprise attack seem that much more menacing.

Of course, all the usual disclaimers apply. I don't know whether I'd actually be able to do this or whether I'd just keep sitting there, hoping they won't come by my table or hurt me. I don't know if I'd be angry and determined enough to act, or too scared to think. I don't know if I'd be able to find another CHLer, who's willing to act, or for that matter a plainclothes or off-duty cop, and even if I did, they might want to do things differently or otherwise take the lead. And I don't know whether a counterattack really would scare off the remaining live gang members. As that video of the bar shootout in Illinois demonstrates, some of these guys love a good firefight. (Course, in that case, the motivation to fight may have had to do more with alcohol or honor, rather than rapid cash acquisition). So, as others have said, I of course have no idea if this little idea of mine would work out.

But I figure, having a plan, or at least the workings of one, couldn't hurt.

Remember this - no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.

[Excaliber]

Throwing my hat into the ring here (in response to the original scenario). One idea I thought of would be to quietly draw my weapon and hold in under the table while the BGs are walking around grabbing wallets. I think I could hold it so that it wouldn't be visible from above (by the BGs) but may be visible from the side (by GGs), especially if I am on the end of a table. Then, what I would do is look around for other people who look not scared, but angry, and hopefully find another CHLer or a plainclothes cop. I would motion with my eyes to my gun, and then to the BG that I intend to shoot, then either let him/her pick a target in a similar manner or else I assign one. I'd then signal to attack on 3, then count to 3, then attack in unison. This, I think, would prove much more effective against a gang robbery, to have 2 of their number go down at the same time, with more coming. I think it has a good chance to scare the others away, for having even one other ally makes the surprise attack seem that much more menacing.

Of course, all the usual disclaimers apply. I don't know whether I'd actually be able to do this or whether I'd just keep sitting there, hoping they won't come by my table or hurt me. I don't know if I'd be angry and determined enough to act, or too scared to think. I don't know if I'd be able to find another CHLer, who's willing to act, or for that matter a plainclothes or off-duty cop, and even if I did, they might want to do things differently or otherwise take the lead. And I don't know whether a counterattack really would scare off the remaining live gang members. As that video of the bar shootout in Illinois demonstrates, some of these guys love a good firefight. (Course, in that case, the motivation to fight may have had to do more with alcohol or honor, rather than rapid cash acquisition). So, as others have said, I of course have no idea if this little idea of mine would work out.

But I figure, having a plan, or at least the workings of one, couldn't hurt.

Remember this - no battle plan survives contact with the enemy.

That's why one plans for contingencies. While no real fight ever goes exactly as anticipated, contingencies and backup plans thought of and rehearsed beforehand can be successfully brought into play as needed to achieve victory.

He who goes into a fight without a plan hands the initiative, and probably the victory, to his adversary.

[5thGenTexan]

So they hit 3 more times yesterday, these guys are going to keep it up long enough and often enough the odds get better that they are going to run into someone who will take some kind of action and the "stuff" will hit the fan. Those of us that are in Dallas had better keep alert and be prepared for the worst to happen because the longer they go the greater the odds some idiot will do something stupid to provoke them and when their bullets begin to fly if you are in the room it will come down to will I do what I have to and make sure myself and as many innocents as possible come out unscathed.

Plan, think, and keep alert because they are not just hitting resturants it can be any retail or service business where they think a decent cash haul can be made. Stay safe and keep cool my brothers and sisters.