Bayonets

[gunpick]

New member but have been a long time viewer. Great board. I have recently acquired a chicom sks with an attached bayonet. I intend to modify this weapon, Federal compliant, but have a question concerning the spike bayonet. What, if any, is the State stautes concerning public display, as in going to the range, of a long gun with an attached bayonet? I have search this forum but could find no posts concerning this question. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

[seamusTX]

Welcome to the forum. Since I don't know the answer, y'all pipe up, please.

You might get the hairy eyeball at the range even if it's legal (which I think it is).

- Jim

[isa268]

i have a Norinco SKS with bayonet, and while IANAL i'v taken it to American Shooting Centers Range many times with no problems.

i'v never extended it in public though.

[The Marshal]

I took mine off.
Why bother. Not like I am gonna stab a hog with it.

That's what the 30rnd Mag is for.

~Bill

[txinvestigator]

New member but have been a long time viewer. Great board. I have recently acquired a chicom sks with an attached bayonet. I intend to modify this weapon, Federal compliant, but have a question concerning the spike bayonet. What, if any, is the State stautes concerning public display, as in going to the range, of a long gun with an attached bayonet? I have search this forum but could find no posts concerning this question. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

If it meets the Texas definition of an illegal knife then it is illegal to carry on or about your person, just like any other illegal knife. Of course, you are also able to take advantage of the exceptions to Unlawfully Carrying.



§46.02. Unlawful carrying weapons.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun,
illegal knife, or club.


§46.01. Definitions.

In this chapter:


(6) "Illegal knife" means a:

(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being
thrown;

(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stilletto*,
and poniard;

*So in original. Probably should be "stiletto".

(D) bowie knife;

(E) sword; or

(F) spear.




§46.15. Nonapplicability.


(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(1) (As added by L.1997, chap. 1221(4). See other paragraph (1)
below.) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of
the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section
431.001, Government Code, or as an employee of a penal institution
who is performing a security function;

(1) (As added by L.1997, chap. 1261(28). See other paragraph
(1) above.) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member
of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section
431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal
institution;

(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under the
person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the
owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to
act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);

(3) is traveling;

(4) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting
activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or
is directly en route between the premises and the actor's residence,
if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's
duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's
place of assignment;

(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(C) the weapon is in plain view;

(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license
issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a
concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is
carrying;

(7) holds a security officer commission and a personal
protection authorization issued by the Texas Board of Private
Investigators and Private Security Agencies and who is providing
personal protection under the Private Investigators and Private
Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Texas Civil Statutes); or

(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an
employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the
person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed
premises.


(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie
knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony
in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the
ceremony.


(g) (As added by L.2003, chap. 421(1). See other subsection (g)
above.) For the purpose of Subsection (b)(2), "premises" includes a
recreational vehicle that is being used by the person carrying the
handgun, illegal knife, or club as living quarters, regardless of
whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection,
"recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as
temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living
quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term
includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home,
and horse trailer with living quarters.

[KBCraig]

Folding spike bayonets can't be considered an "illegal knife". Spear, possibly... but that's stretching it.

Just a warning about making modifications. Crazy as it sounds, a strict interpretation of 922(r) makes it illegal to remove the bayonet from some SKSs; such guns must remain in their "importable" condition.

I don't have time to provide the details; I'll have to look it up later. Hopefully someone here can pitch in.

Kevin

[txinvestigator]

Folding spike bayonets can't be considered an "illegal knife". Spear, possibly... but that's stretching it.

I am curious about that. how come?

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:

(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being
thrown;

(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable
of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a
person with the instrument.


Would it be becaue it is not a "hand instrument"?

[gunpick]

Thanks everyone for your info. Txinvestigator, am I to understand that possession of an illegal knife/sword/ect. under Section 46.02 is not a contravention if one has a CHL and in possession of a concealed hand gun as defined in 46.15 (6)? Since I have never contemplated carrying an illegal knife I did not make this connection. Good info.


KBCraig, as I understand it, one may modify any legally imported military semi-auto rifle as long as you can win the "10" game. In the case of the Norinco SKS, one must simply install a "Made in the USA" stock (can be folding or telescoping or straight), fore grip, pistol grip, gas piston, connecting rod, and magazine (any size, attached or detachable). That's it. The SKS is now a "USA" manufactured assault weapon fully legal except in select non-American cities and one state.

I'm fully satisfied as to the legal modifications on the SKS, I just did not know about the folding spike bayonet.

Thanks everyone.

[txinvestigator]

Thanks everyone for your info. Txinvestigator, am I to understand that possession of an illegal knife/sword/ect. under Section 46.02 is not a contravention if one has a CHL and in possession of a concealed hand gun as defined in 46.15 (6)? Since I have never contemplated carrying an illegal knife I did not make this connection. Good info.



Thanks everyone.

This has been a long point of debate here. It is clear TO ME, that a CHL does not allow the carry of other weapons listed in 46.02, an illegal knife and club. It is not a Concealed Weapons License. You are not trained or tested in the use of an illegal knife or club, and in 46.15, ( 6) it is the only exception that specifically mentions the handgun as what is exempted. The other exemptions either use the word weapon or don't restrict it to a handgun.

DPS has said that they will arrest for UCW a CHL holder carrying an illegal knife or club. A Dallas sheriff's Depatment Academy instructor and rangemaster is at our facility every week doing prints. DSO will arrest a CHL holder found carrying an illegal knife or club.

We have many LEO's from different agencies into the range, and they will all arrest the same.

[gunpick]

New member but have been a long time viewer. Great board. I have recently acquired a chicom sks with an attached bayonet. I intend to modify this weapon, Federal compliant, but have a question concerning the spike bayonet. What, if any, is the State stautes concerning public display, as in going to the range, of a long gun with an attached bayonet? I have search this forum but could find no posts concerning this question. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

If it meets the Texas definition of an illegal knife then it is illegal to carry on or about your person, just like any other illegal knife. Of course, you are also able to take advantage of the exceptions to Unlawfully Carrying.

[/b]

What did you mean by ..."Of course, you are also able to take advantage of the exceptions to Unlawfully Carrying."...

Your last post seems to contradict you earlier post. Now I'm a little confused. It probably is just better to remove the bayonet when outside the residence. Do you agree?

Thanks

[Charles L. Cotton]

As txinvestigator said, whether all of TPC §46.02 or just the handgun prohibition is "not applicable" to a CHL holder with a handgun, has long been debated. I concede the Code states that 46.02 is "not applicable" not merely that it is "not applicable" as it applies to handguns.

However, any CHL contemplating carrying a knife or club should consider this. Our license is titled Concealed Handgun License and in court this is more significant than some believe. It is a clear indication of legislative intent. Here are other indications of legislative intent. The Legislative History of SB60 (1995) and all of its predecessor bills referred only to handguns. Every committee hearing as well as floor debates in the House and Senate referenced only handguns. You will not find a single reference to carrying a knife or club.

Yes, I admit that you don't get into legislative intent when the statute is clear, but we are not dealing with the degree of clarity that will preclude further evaluation of the scope of authority granted by a CHL. Remember also the following section of the Penal Code:

§ 1.05. CONSTRUCTION OF CODE. (a) The rule that a penal
statute is to be strictly construed does not apply to this code.
The provisions of this code shall be construed according to the fair
import of their terms, to promote justice and effect the objectives
of the code.

The objective of SB60 was to allow CHL's to carry handguns, nothing more. Some argue that the effect is broader, but I've never heard the argument that the "intent" behind SB60 was to allow carrying clubs and knives.

I would have no objection to a Concealed Weapon License in Texas, but that's not what we have now. I'd hate to see a CHL get a Class A conviction (or worse) and loose their CHL for 7 years (or for life) trying to stretch the authority granted to us pursuant to our CHL's.

Regards,
Chas.

[gunpick]

Charles, point taken. The risk is not worth the probable consequences.

Theron

[txinvestigator]

New member but have been a long time viewer. Great board. I have recently acquired a chicom sks with an attached bayonet. I intend to modify this weapon, Federal compliant, but have a question concerning the spike bayonet. What, if any, is the State stautes concerning public display, as in going to the range, of a long gun with an attached bayonet? I have search this forum but could find no posts concerning this question. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

If it meets the Texas definition of an illegal knife then it is illegal to carry on or about your person, just like any other illegal knife. Of course, you are also able to take advantage of the exceptions to Unlawfully Carrying.

[/b]

What did you mean by ..."Of course, you are also able to take advantage of the exceptions to Unlawfully Carrying."...

Your last post seems to contradict you earlier post. Now I'm a little confused. It probably is just better to remove the bayonet when outside the residence. Do you agree?

Thanks

If you meet the applicable exceptions in 46.15, then you can carry an illegal knife. That said, I Don't believe that the exception for CHL holders is applicable to illegal knives.

[seamusTX]

To violate PC §46.02, you have to carry an illegal knife "on or about your person." In the trunk of a vehicle is not on or about your person, and I don't see a problem with taking the bayonet to the range or other legitimate sporting activity.

This situation would be the same a buying a long kitchen knife (or handgun, for that matter) and bringing it home from the store.

I wouldn't want to try bringing it to a gravel pit or whatever informal shooting venue you may use.

IANAL.

- Jim

[gunpick]

I see no 46.15 exceptions for "going to the range", so I lose. The bayonet comes off!

Thanks
Theron