A disappointing State Fair episode 10-1-09

[Hos]

Just got to the Fair. Guess they didn't find it with the wand. I had my audio recorder running and some polite diatribes waiting but ...nothing. It's $1 food drive day so what a deal! I hope we win this battle but just as 80% of our taxes are unconstitutional but we pay them anyway my feelings are to fight but go along with it if possible.

[tfrazier]

That's great! I would love a Facebook link on there so I could share it as a news story on my page.

Right below the article title there's a "Share" link. Click on it and it will pop up with options for posting on Facebook, Twitter, and numerous other social networking sites. Click the Facebook icon and it will open a new window with a Facebook link to the article ready to post on your wall/news feed page.

By the way, I am on Facebook; anyone who is on Texas CHL forum should feel free to add me to their friends list. Look me up via my email address: tim@4fraziers.com

[cdc101]

That's great! I would love a Facebook link on there so I could share it as a news story on my page.

Right below the article title there's a "Share" link. Click on it and it will pop up with options for posting on Facebook, Twitter, and numerous other social networking sites. Click the Facebook icon and it will open a new window with a Facebook link to the article ready to post on your wall/news feed page.

By the way, I am on Facebook; anyone who is on Texas CHL forum should feel free to add me to their friends list. Look me up via my email address: tim@4fraziers.com

Thanks Tim...I got it. You should have a friend request on FB coming from Chris Connor.

[timdsmith72]

I just got back from the fair. The showed the wander my license. He waves me through then stops me and says, "Do you have it on you?"
I say yes. He leads me over to an officer. The officer tells me he has to call somebody over to take down some information. I ask what info and he tells me DL number, address, and CHL number. He also informs me that it will be destroyed at the end of the day. I'm there with a lot of co-workers as kind of a team builder so I didn't really have the option to refuse. A couple of people rode with me. Then he kind of rolls his eyes and says we use to not have to do this, but I guess it's something new they've came up with. He was very polite and we chatted for the 5 or 6 minutes it took the info taker in the golf cart to get there. When we were leaving, we went out the same gate and he was still there. He seemed to remember me because he waved and called out "Have a good night."

Any way...wasn't too much of a hassle but I would still rather they not record anything.

[PappaGun]

I just got back from the fair. The showed the wander my license. He waves me through then stops me and says, "Do you have it on you?"
I say yes. He leads me over to an officer. The officer tells me he has to call somebody over to take down some information. I ask what info and he tells me DL number, address, and CHL number. He also informs me that it will be destroyed at the end of the day. I'm there with a lot of co-workers as kind of a team builder so I didn't really have the option to refuse. A couple of people rode with me. Then he kind of rolls his eyes and says we use to not have to do this, but I guess it's something new they've came up with. He was very polite and we chatted for the 5 or 6 minutes it took the info taker in the golf cart to get there. When we were leaving, we went out the same gate and he was still there. He seemed to remember me because he waved and called out "Have a good night."

Any way...wasn't too much of a hassle but I would still rather they not record anything.

Did you verify that the recorded info was destroyed?
Maybe it gets thrown in a garbage can.
That's the part that makes me nervous.
I would sure like to have them hand me back the original paperwork that the information was written on.
Then I MIGHT be comfortable with it.

[Dave905]

Since the wife and kids had already been promised a trip to the fair this year we went this morning. Based on the experiences of so many this year I was expecting to go through the same process, was not looking forward to it. However, this year, instead of displaying my chl to the wand-guy at the entrance I didn't have it out and did not offer it. One pass with the wand and we were in, no second look, no questions. I had the kimber 45 and two magazines on my belt. I was certain it would be detected but it was not. When we walked in my wife look at me with biggie eyes and asked if I was carrying. I told her yes as always. She said she was really impressed with secuity knowing we got through the security check with that much hardware.

Anyway, if we go again next year I'll do the same thing, offer nothing and only tell them I'm chl if they start asking questions and doing more scanning. Even then I'll pull the second set of keys I'll keep on a ring near my back pocket. They are going to have to have to be about one second away from calling security or the police before I volunteer anything to them.

Sorry to hear about all the un-needed and possible unlaw processes chl's have had to deal with at the fair this year. I hope they get this squared away before next year. If not I don't know that we'll attend again.

[Hos]

Yet ANOTHER reason to need a CHL inside the Fair. How many of us, including me today, were wanded and they didn't even stop us??? Therefore, how many gangbangers could be carrying? She didn't even wand my ankle area although I don't know how those things work, maybe they don't need to but still, makes you wonder...

On a lighter note, the fried bacon was among the best things I've ever put in my mouth. The fried butter was not that great but I have to hand it to whoever created it for their good marketing skills. To charge $5.00 for 4 pieces of a glorified donut hole, impressive.

[lrb111]

Well, even though they missed yours, it's good to know they stop all the gang bangers, thieves, and remaining bad guys from carrying ANY weapons in.
/sarc off

You know, That just about takes the cake as far as fair security goes.

[gemini]

I'm paraphrasing several posts......"I went to the Fair, I gave them all the information they asked for, I went in, had fun, and now I'm second-guessing myself, or mad, or having a form of buyers remorse, 'cause they asked for the information and I gave it to them". ???????
The only consistent inconsistency is what gate you enter, who's wanding, what day it is, what time it is, what the weather is,
etc. There is no consistency to how, where or when the Fair personnel handle CHL's.

off big tex.com (http://www.bigtex.com/generalinfo/faqs/bring.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
...a gun? No, with one exception.
A person holding a valid concealed handgun license is permitted to enter onto State Fair property with his/her concealed handgun. OK. Licenses will be examined at the entrances. (should be examined ONLY if demanded to show ID by a LEO). License holder's name will be made accessible to law enforcement officials. (is the guy taking names in the golf cart a law enforcement official?).Handguns will not be permitted inside the Cotton Bowl, a facility defined under Texas Penal Code 46.035 as "the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place." (duh).We want the Fair to be a fun and safe experience. ( the assumption that CHL'ers aren't safe or are a detrimental force on the safety or security of the Fair).

Your name is made available to the LEO on duty as soon as he looks at your CHL and matches your face to the license. If you are wanded and it doesn't beep; why the need to say anything at all regarding your concealed carry? You are under no obligation to say anything, unless a LEO demands your ID. There are no signs at the gates stating a "must reveal and give up your name, address and DL#". It's not on their official website. At least I want them to be honest about their "policy". Put the "policy" out for the public to see, THEN they (CHL's) can decide whether they will submit to volunteering information or not attending.
I won't subject myself to having any information recorded; to each his own.

[Shorts]

I'm paraphrasing several posts......"I went to the Fair, I gave them all the information they asked for, I went in, had fun, and now I'm second-guessing myself, or mad, or having a form of buyers remorse, 'cause they asked for the information and I gave it to them". ???????
The only consistent inconsistency is what gate you enter, who's wanding, what day it is, what time it is, what the weather is,
etc. There is no consistency to how, where or when the Fair personnel handle CHL's.

off big tex.com (http://www.bigtex.com/generalinfo/faqs/bring.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
...a gun? No, with one exception.
A person holding a valid concealed handgun license is permitted to enter onto State Fair property with his/her concealed handgun. OK. Licenses will be examined at the entrances. (should be examined ONLY if demanded to show ID by a LEO). License holder's name will be made accessible to law enforcement officials. (is the guy taking names in the golf cart a law enforcement official?).Handguns will not be permitted inside the Cotton Bowl, a facility defined under Texas Penal Code 46.035 as "the premises where a high school, collegiate or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place." (duh).We want the Fair to be a fun and safe experience. ( the assumption that CHL'ers aren't safe or are a detrimental force on the safety or security of the Fair).

Your name is made available to the LEO on duty as soon as he looks at your CHL and matches your face to the license. If you are wanded and it doesn't beep; why the need to say anything at all regarding your concealed carry? You are under no obligation to say anything, unless a LEO demands your ID. There are no signs at the gates stating a "must reveal and give up your name, address and DL#". It's not on their official website. At least I want them to be honest about their "policy". Put the "policy" out for the public to see, THEN they (CHL's) can decide whether they will submit to volunteering information or not attending.
I won't subject myself to having any information recorded; to each his own.

I'm so glad you typed this. I was about to the do the same.


CHLers do not and should not volunteer !

[Purplehood]

Polymer, baby.

[jimlongley]

There has been a series of news articles last night and this morning, about attendance at the fair being down. They attribute it to the economy and the weather. I have written to the Dallas Morning News, KDAF, WFAA, KTVT, and others:

To whom it may concern, Dallas Morning News, WFAA, KTVT, KDTN, KDFW, KXAS, KERA, KTXA, and radio stations around the world:

The State Fair of Texas has been underway since October 1st and attendance is down, which the State Fair attributes to the weather and the economy, but they forgot to mention one thing that they actually have control over, and which is also having an impact: The State Fair of Texas is attempting to skirt the law and block access to the fairgrounds by Concealed Handgun Licensees, using a little ploy that is, at a minimum, questionable and may well be illegal and discriminatory.

A few years ago our legislature changed the rules for CHL holders, allowing them to carry in more places by eliminating a poorly crafted and ill understood part of the rules. One of the effects of the change was to allow concealed carry in the State Fair by CHL holders. The State Fair objected and dragged their feet at allowing law abiding citizens onto the grounds by, when they discovered that someone was carrying within the law, which self-identification was required at the gates, delaying their entry by as much as an hour.

After a rather muted outcry by these law abiding citizens and their legislators, the state fair rescinded the policy and all a CHL holder had to do was self-identify to the person with the metal detector at the gate and they were referred to a law enforcement officer who confirmed the credentials and they were allowed to enter, albeit after the screener at the gate announced in a loud voice for anyone to hear “CHL HERE!” or “I’VE GOT A GUN HERE!”

That policy maintained for a few years, until this year when CHL holders are again subjected to administrative harassment. This year the State Fair is collecting the names and personal identifying information of CHL holders attempting to gain access to the fairgrounds while lawfully carrying a concealed handgun. State Fair officials spoken to, state that it is because of incidents relating to CHL holders using their firearms or losing their firearms on rides and that identifying information is required to facilitate investigation of these incidents.

This policy is unevenly implemented at best, with some CHL holders reporting that they were allowed to enter with merely a cursory glance at the person’s license, to LEOs questioning them as to why they felt a need to carry there, and even security screeners wielding their metal detectors so poorly that a full size gun carried in a belt holster failed to trigger the detector.

I have not been able to locate even one report of a CHL holder losing a firearm anywhere in the State Fair in the past, and you can bet that, considering the prevailing anti-law abiding citizen attitude shown by officials, they would have made a very big noise about it. I have also been unable to locate anything more than anecdotal tales of CHL holders using their guns, which again would have resulted in an uproar from State Fair officials.

State Fair officials also state that the information gathered by this means is shredded at the end of each day, which is ridiculous on its face because shredding at the end of the day would render the supposed objective completely moot.

I submit that the loosely organized network of CHL holders in our state, many of whom post information and opinions on various blogs and fora both statewide and national in scope, is contributing to the decline in attendance. CHL holders comprise about 1.5% of the population of the State of Texas, which is not a large percentage, but if you then add the families that do not attend due to this discrimination and the friends influenced not to attend, and those people who will avoid attending just because they became aware of the issue and feel that the State Fair is overstepping its bounds, it easily becomes a significant hole in attendance, and by law abiding citizens as these policies have absolutely no effect on criminals.

It is also interesting that as CHL holders began to become aware of this issue and pointed out to officials that their web site FAQ did not mention this discriminatory practice, they changed the language relating to carrying guns. Isn’t that kind of like pulling up to the gas pump and having the price go up just as you pick up the nozzle?

The officials state that this is within their purview, they make excuses that the law does not apply, they call this a minor inconvenience and people unwilling to comply can just leave their guns in their cars (as if they have not noticed the break in rate in their parking lots) and other bafflegab, and they hardly ever give the same excuse twice.

The State Fair is not playing fair and until they do, they will get no money from me, my family, and anyone else I can influence not to go.

Jim Longley

[jimlongley]

Polymer, baby.

This former TSA screener can assure you that polymer guns contain enough metal that a PROPERLY wielded wand will find them EVERY time. I can find the staples in my abdominal muscles with one.

That said, the first year carry was allowed the screener missed my 1911 .45ACP at three o'clock and waved me through.

BTW, I was going to suggest in my rant above that any and all who want to copy and send may do so at will.

And that copies to legislators, DPS, Governor Perry and others might have more than a salutory effect.

[joe817]

Wow and double wow. Jim, that was an EXCELLENT, well worded letter! I thank you for the time it took you to compose that, and send it to those media outlets!

Well done!

[ammo two]

Jim, a very well thought ought letter. Excellent! I hope your are able to reach to those that need this eye opener.