Church Carry: Yes or No?

[Carrots]

Well "Banks" would work for me, I was just using the OP's list. You're right though, telling the difference these days might be quite the chore

[Liberty]

OK...here's the list of "Never Carry Sites" and "You Can Decide Sites" as written on the blackboard of my CHL class. In case it matters, this was before the '09 changes were published.

Never Carry:
Bars - 51% and consumed
Federal - post office, etc.
Schools - events, transportation, bldgs.
Jails
Courts
Airports
Racetracks - Horse and dog
Professional Sporting Events
Anywhere while intoxicated
1000' Near an execution
Anywhere a 30.06 is posted

You Can Decide:e avail
Churches/Temples bank if it isn't posted. 30.06
Federal Parks are a go after Feb. 2010
Hospitals
Nursing Homes
Amusement Parks
Government Entity Meetings
Lower Colorado River Authority
State Parks and Monuments
Local Public Transportation
Most Federal Parks
Privately Owned Banks

There is no problem carrying at airports, as long as you don't attempt to take a gun past security into the secure areas of the terminal.
Lots of 30.06 signs seem to be posted near city or county property. These signs have no meaning.
Churches, Amusement parks, Hospitals are good to go unless posted 30.06 (Some hospitals are teaching hospitals therefore could be considered schools.
You can't take guns at into official government entity meetings
Lower Colorado River Authority was made legal 2007
Guns can be carried in all state and municipal parks and monuments
There is no reason you can't carry into a bank if it isn't posted. 30.06
Federal Parks are a go after Feb. 2010.
I think you CHL instructor is misinformed

[Liberty]

My understanding regarding airports is that you can carry there, but
not inside the security perimeter through which travelers must pass.

Yes, that was my understanding, too. However, we were informed that if you have a LEO encounter anywhere on airport property, you can pretty much expect to have your CHL rights violated (and possibly other rights too). I'd be REALLY CAREFUL at the airport.

Its no different than anywhere else. This has been discussed many times here, airport security LEOs in Texas are pretty well informed where the secure areas are in the airport,

[dicion]

I know others have replied already, but I'm going to do my rendition ;)
My Comments in Blue

Never Carry:
Bars - 51% and consumed

CORRECT, However, it is a defense to prosecution as of September 1st that the 51% Sign was not properly posted.

Federal - post office, etc.

Generally Correct, However, Post offices specifically are 'the greyest of grey areas'
See the following threads for more information:
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 83&t=27572" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=26869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Schools - events, transportation, bldgs.

Correct, however there is a grey area of misconception about school functions OUTSIDE of School property.
Eg, a field trip to a science museum or something.
Charles Cotton has given his opinion stating that School Functions outside of school property are NOT dis-qualifiers for carry.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 08#p287208" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jails
Courts

Mostly correct, unless you work there ;)

Airports

Only if you try to carry through security. On the rest of the property (baggage claim, ticketing, etc) you can carry.
Even if they post 30.06 signs... see below as to why.

Racetracks - Horse and dog
Professional Sporting Events
Anywhere while intoxicated
1000' Near an execution

True with some caveats.
-Intoxicated has 2 definitions. One is the 'legal limit', the other is a broader term of 'not having sound judgment' or similar. So it's open to interpretation.
-1000' near an execution during the ENTIRE day it is scheduled to occur.

Anywhere a 30.06 is posted

Incorrect!
If a 30.06 sign is posted on 'Government owned or leased property' then it has no effect at all.

You Can Decide:
Churches/Temples
Hospitals
Nursing Homes
Amusement Parks
Government Entity Meetings
Privately Owned Banks

Incorrect. These are all 100% allowed carry unless the actor is given effective notice under 30.06.
Or the Hospitals fall under the 'School' provision.
This is also a grey area. Some hospitals will consider themselves 'schools' when they may not be.
Don't expect local LE to disagree with them either. This is a Take the ride, and figure it out in court later situation.

Lower Colorado River Authority

Don't know the laws of Colorado, so I can't comment here

State Parks and Monuments
Local Public Transportation

See above about 30.06 and government property.
However, if the park is an Army Corps of Engineers park/waterway (Most lakes in Texas are, and the George W. Bush Park in Houston is)
Then it is prohibited by US ACoE, Federal Level.

Most Federal Parks

Also depends. We just had a law passed that allows carry in national parks. If it's not US ACoE, and just a National park, you're 100% good to go.

[LostInAustin]

Lower Colorado River Authority

Don't know the laws of Colorado, so I can't comment here

[Keith B]

Lower Colorado River Authority

Don't know the laws of Colorado, so I can't comment here

The Lower Colorado River Authority controls Lake's Travis and Buchanan in Texas, not Colorado.

And, they cannot ban CHL's on their property per the Parks and Wildlife code. See Subject: Concealed carry in TPWD state parks?

[dicion]

Bahahaha



Did I show that I'm not a native Texan there, or what? Lol!

Yea, have no idea what that is, as is isn't around where I live or work, sorry about that! LOL!

Looked it up, and now I feel like a moron...
I figured since so many Texans go to Colorado for vacations, etc, that his instructor was just being prudent to include some Colorado Law...

I'm going to go sit in my corner now :P

[LostInAustin]

LOL! I thought you were making a joke and I wasn't getting it! That is why i was

[dewayneward]

I thought this was a poll. I was looking for the "of course" option.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

It's kind of amusing to me that there is a special place where you can't carry:
Within 1,000' of an execution.

In older days, when a man was sentenced to death, the penalty was carried out in the
Texas county where the man was found guilty.

Later, the state decided that anyone in Texas sentenced to death would be brought to
Huntsville for the festivities.

So for the majority of us - this is a pretty meaningless restriction to carrying.

***********************************************
As for the original question posed in the Subject line: Yes, carry at church.
You never know who's coming through the door.

SIA

[wgoforth]

From the FWIW dept.... as a minister of a church myself, I carry into the pulpit at all times. We tend to get unsavory characters on a regular basis asking for money. You can tell that many of these have drug and alcohol problems. Sometimes they get pretty irate when you tell them you wont help them with money (but I usually offer to help them with what they really need). Who knows what some might do when feeling desperate enough. We have had to call police before with some who would not leave and created a scene. One schizophrenic visitor who came regularly thought my sermons were always about her, and told one member she was going to get me at church. While preaching, I once saw a person walk in the front door and go into the church office (all other heads were forward toward the pulpit or hanging down asleep, lol). I simply stopped preaching and asked one of the men to check it out. Most do not realize how vulnerable church buildings are.

By their very nature, churches attract desperate people. People sometimes go there when they have no where else to turn, and desperate people can do desperate acts. I would advise all churches to have a security plan.

blessings

Wayne

[joe817]

Excellent post Wayne. Thank you for sharing.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

wgoforth:

It's surprising to me that in mostly rural Early (Brown County) that
you would have such a ration of shady characters cross your path.
It's heartening that you are not shy about packing in the pulpit.

There are other threads on the forum where we have discussed our
church carry situations. Some folks have multiple CHL's and all know
about the other CHL's, at their churches.

I carry at church every Sunday, but I have never broached the security/CHL
issue with anyone else. There are no CHL's known to me at church.

My gun is ready for any defensive need at church, but no one needs to know
I'm packing. I don't tell anyone whether I'm wearing boxers or briefs, and
they don't need to know that I've got 31 rounds of JHP on me either. :-)

SIA

[wgoforth]

wgoforth:

It's surprising to me that in mostly rural Early (Brown County) that
you would have such a ration of shady characters cross your path.
It's heartening that you are not shy about packing in the pulpit.

There are other threads on the forum where we have discussed our
church carry situations. Some folks have multiple CHL's and all know
about the other CHL's, at their churches.

I carry at church every Sunday, but I have never broached the security/CHL
issue with anyone else. There are no CHL's known to me at church.

My gun is ready for any defensive need at church, but no one needs to know
I'm packing. I don't tell anyone whether I'm wearing boxers or briefs, and
they don't need to know that I've got 31 rounds of JHP on me either. :-)

SIA

Several assumptions here. I preach in Brownwood not Early. Early is where the mall is from another thread. The church building is located at an apt complex that also serves as a half-way-house. I moved here only one month ago from Abilene where we were the first church building off of I-20. Abilene has one of the highest rates of vagrants in the state. You have 3 religious schools who's social work students take them under wing thus envouraging them to stay, so yes, we had them almost weekly there. Too, we had a huge jump in crime in Abilene including home invasions due to a gang called "the brown skins"...illegals doing home invasions. Both Brownwood and Abilene have an enormous meth production problem with Abilene being the meth production capital of Tx. Aside from that, I have preached in Kansas City and Nashville, Tn. So yes, I have run into a lot of this in churches.

Wayne

[wgoforth]

I should have said the church building is next door to an apt complex rather than at one, lol.
Wayne