State Fair

[Keith]

I was wondering the same thing. Anyone know that actual law or # for the law. Would hate to be challenged and not have anything to offer. Sure as heck though not going to give them all my license #s with identity theft being such a big deal these days.

[XDgal]

Now that I've had a couple of days to think about this I have a question for those that know.

Was I correct that the park or anyone else cannot collect this information or did I just run a good bluff? I think I was correct, but if challenged I could not have provided any reference to a statute to back up my assertion.

I, too, would like to know what statute or law to reference. I know the CHL info was restricted to law enforcement access only, but after serching this site, I can't find anything about it. It was passed in the 2007 legislative session.
I went to the fair yesterday about 3pm. The gatekeeper started to take down my info and I challenged him. After he said I could either take my gun back to the car or let him take my info, I asked him to call over an officer. The officer then backed up the gatekeeper. I pointed out that by law they couldn't bar my entry or take my info down. She would not budge. Not wanting to waste my limited time at the fair on this debate, especialy not knowing the statute, I let them take my info under protest, pointing out it was illegal for them to do so.
I'm returning on Friday and would like to be better armed to deal with this. ( pun intended)

[joe817]

Try GC 411.192 Confidentiality Of Records:

411.192.AACONFIDENTIALITY OF RECORDS.A (a)The department shall disclose to a criminal justice agency information
contained in its files and records regarding whether a named individual or any individual named in a specified list is licensed
under this subchapter.AA Information on an individual subject to disclosure under this section includes the individual ’s name, date of birth, gender, race, and zip code.AAExcept as otherwise provided by this section and by Section 411.193, all other records maintained under this subchapter are confidential and are not subject to mandatory disclosure under the open records law, Chapter 552.

[XDgal]

Thanks joe817! That's the one. I forgot to mention, as the officer was walking away, she said I was the second one to challenge the taking of info. Maybe the same one you talked to C-dub?

[gemini]

Which gate (s), location, did this occur? Maybe I can avoid these idiots.
You also may wish to contact your state representitive. Can't hurt.

[dicion]

Try GC 411.192 Confidentiality Of Records:

411.192.AACONFIDENTIALITY OF RECORDS.A (a)The department shall disclose to a criminal justice agency information
contained in its files and records regarding whether a named individual or any individual named in a specified list is licensed
under this subchapter.AA Information on an individual subject to disclosure under this section includes the individual ’s name, date of birth, gender, race, and zip code.AAExcept as otherwise provided by this section and by Section 411.193, all other records maintained under this subchapter are confidential and are not subject to mandatory disclosure under the open records law, Chapter 552.

Unfortunately, I think this only covers the DPS disclosing this information, not individual.

This is a Charles Question... I don't even know where to start looking.. I wouldn't look towards CHL law, but rather, General law, that should provide protection of privacy, for all individuals.

Also, good call on contacting the state rep. I'd do it.

Personally, Sounds like someone needs to go, take a videographer, and refuse to allow them to take down your information. If they refuse to stop taking it down, be sure to loudly state that you do not consent to them recording your information. Then try to continue walking in. If they stop you, ask them if you are under arrest or are being detained, and if so, for what reason? Ask them what laws you have broken.

I dont know if the property is government owned or leased though.. cant find anything on tax records, they act like it's not there.

[mikeintexas]

http://www.bigtex.com/generalinfo/faqs/bring.asp

Here is a link from the State Fair of Texas site. It says nothing about giving up any information, other than showing credentials at the gate.

I saw that the State Fair is on Twitter. What if it gets posted on Twitter that the Fair is collecting this information?

Opinions?

[dicion]

I saw that the State Fair is on Twitter. What if it gets posted on Twitter that the Fair is collecting this information?

Done.

[XDgal]

I entered the east enterance off of Fitzhugh Ave. The Fair grounds are owned by the city of Dallas. I intend to make some calls.

[BrianSW99]

As someone pointed out, that law only limits the information the dps is able to provide about you in an open records request. It doesn't restrict the fair from requiring you to provide your chl number. This is the same as a a store requiring your DL number to accept a check. Just as a store can refuse to accept a check without a DL, I believe that the State Fair is probably within their right to refuse entry if you don't abide by their policies. Even if they're govt owned and prohibited from refusing entry under 30.06, they're not technically telling you that you can't carry. Just that you must follow their rules for entry.

This of course is just my .02 based on my understanding of the law.

[gemini]

My understanding of the law was that you ONLY had to produce your DL /CHL if asked for ID by a LEO
or magistrate. What's to keep the recorded names and info the Fair collects from being printed in the
Dallas Morning Snooze, maybe announced over NPR or some other such media. Far out? I don't think so.
I'd have a hard time trusting any type of recorded ID info with a "ticket gate wand waver".
I am planning to take my wife to the Fair later this week. IF they require recorded CHL info from me for
admittance, I'll take a pass on the Fair this year..... and I'll wear my State Rep's office fax & phone out.

[quote="BrianSW99"]As someone pointed out, that law only limits the information the dps is able to provide about you in an open records request. It doesn't restrict the fair from requiring you to provide your chl number. This is the same as a a store requiring your DL number to accept a check. Just as a store can refuse to accept a check without a DL, I believe that the State Fair is probably within their right to refuse entry if you don't abide by their policies. Even if they're govt owned and prohibited from refusing entry under 30.06, they're not technically telling you that you can't carry. Just that you must follow their rules for entry.

Ouch. A store is a PRIVATELY (corp) owned business and property. Accepting a check for payment of goods/services rendered
and requiring a DL is so that in case your check fails to clear, and the store has to file charges to collect, the local DA has a positive ID of who to go after. Why should the Fair's "rules" for entry differ from our state capitals or other government facilities? It is a publicly owned site. What's in the written law and not in the written law are equally important.... I can't find anywhere in my PC stating a written log of my attendance or entry into any government / publicly owned site requires I give my CHL to any ticket taker, gate attendant, wand waver or the Pope. I'm totally against this, if it's current Fair policy, and I'm willing to make a few calls to let my displeasure be known.

[KsSteve]

Wife and I spent the weekend in Dallas, celebrating our granddaughters second birthday. We all went to the fair on Sunday afternoon. I carried a M&P 340 in front pocket of my cargo shorts. As the lady started to wand me at the gate, I handed her my Kansas CC license. She directed me towards a Dallas PD Officer standing nearby. I walked over and handed her my license, she asked for ID which I gave her. She looked both over carefully, handed them back and said "Thank you sir, enjoy your afternoon." We had a great time, won some prizes on the Midway, ate fried everything, listened to some of the "38 Special" concert, and went on a couple rides. I never felt nervous inside the fairgrounds as there were a good number of police officers present, but it felt comforting to be carrying during the three block walk to the car. FYI, CC at Kansas State Fair is prohibited. That being the case, my wife and I agreed, we'll just have to go to the Texas State Fair instead.

[BrianSW99]

My understanding of the law was that you ONLY had to produce your DL /CHL if asked for ID by a LEO
or magistrate.

That's true, but you don't have to show your CHL at the fair either. You are free to walk away and not enter if you don't want to show it. The law you refer to applies to times that you have no choice but to produce your ID.

Ouch. A store is a PRIVATELY (corp) owned business and property. Accepting a check for payment of goods/services rendered
and requiring a DL is so that in case your check fails to clear, and the store has to file charges to collect, the local DA has a positive ID of who to go after. Why should the Fair's "rules" for entry differ from our state capitals or other government facilities? It is a publicly owned site. What's in the written law and not in the written law are equally important.... I can't find anywhere in my PC stating a written log of my attendance or entry into any government / publicly owned site requires I give my CHL to any ticket taker, gate attendant, wand waver or the Pope. I'm totally against this, if it's current Fair policy, and I'm willing to make a few calls to let my displeasure be known.

The property may be publicly owned, but the State Fair is a private entity that leases the Fair Park. From their webpage:

"State Fair of Texas, Inc. is a private, non-profit corporation. It receives no funds from state, federal or local government and is entirely self-supporting. Programs and policies are set by a 55-member board of directors."

I don't like or agree with their policy, I just don't think they are breaking any laws by recording the CHL license number.

[gemini]

My understanding of the law was that you ONLY had to produce your DL /CHL if asked for ID by a LEO
or magistrate.

That's true, but you don't have to show your CHL at the fair either. You are free to walk away and not enter if you don't want to show it. The law you refer to applies to times that you have no choice but to produce your ID.

I'll flash it to a "gate wander" to keep them from beeping me. I'll show it to the LEO at the gate. I won't allow a "gate wander" to write my info down in some sort of ledger, register or Fair notebook. If required by the LEO, for Fair ground entrance, to allow the "gate wander" to write my info down, I will leave. A small barage of phone calls would immediately follow this incident.

Ouch. A store is a PRIVATELY (corp) owned business and property. Accepting a check for payment of goods/services rendered
and requiring a DL is so that in case your check fails to clear, and the store has to file charges to collect, the local DA has a positive ID of who to go after. Why should the Fair's "rules" for entry differ from our state capitals or other government facilities? It is a publicly owned site. What's in the written law and not in the written law are equally important.... I can't find anywhere in my PC stating a written log of my attendance or entry into any government / publicly owned site requires I give my CHL to any ticket taker, gate attendant, wand waver or the Pope. I'm totally against this, if it's current Fair policy, and I'm willing to make a few calls to let my displeasure be known.

The property may be publicly owned, but the State Fair is a private entity that leases the Fair Park. From their webpage:

"State Fair of Texas, Inc. is a private, non-profit corporation. It receives no funds from state, federal or local government and is entirely self-supporting. Programs and policies are set by a 55-member board of directors."

I don't like or agree with their policy, I just don't think they are breaking any laws by recording the CHL license number.

You make my point for me. "The property may be publicly owned......". Exactly.

[dicion]

You make my point for me. "The property may be publicly owned......". Exactly.

And since it is publicly owned, they cannot prohibit you from carrying there, per 30.06(e).

Therefore refusing you entry because you're carrying, and not willing to allow them to collect your information is illegal.
Unless they collected the exact same information for every single other patron that entered.

Singling you out because of your CHL status is discriminatory.