Gun "Signatures"

[Commander]

I was not aware that some states had started collecting what I call "signatures" from new guns as they are sold. The following is from a Ruger Owners manual.

WHY ARE WE INCLUDING A FIRED CARTRIDGE CASE WITH EVERY RUGER PISTOL AND REVOLVER?
Certain states and jurisdictions now require that all newly manufactured pistols and revolvers must be accompanied by a cartridge case, which has been test fired from that gun at the factory. The case must be placed in a sealed container bearing certain information concerning this test cartridge.
At the time of retail sale in those jurisdictions, firearms dealers must forward
such test cartridge to a designated destination such as their State Police
Laboratory.

How valid is the science behind this? I just don't like this.

[cyphur]

Trade in your stock barrel on an aftermarket one. Problem solved.

I wasn't aware that Texas did that though?

[propellerhead]

I never sent mine in.

[Commander]

Texas doesn't require the cartridges that why you go to keep yours. In the states that do, the firearms dealer must send it in....

[nitrogen]

Trade in your stock barrel on an aftermarket one. Problem solved.

I wasn't aware that Texas did that though?

Texas doesn't.
The firearms manufacturers include the casing because a few states require sending the casing in, along with some state paperwork. If you live in a "free" state" you just get the casing to dispose of as you wish.

I want to say that none of these test-firings has yet resulted in a criminal prosecution.

I share your concerns, though, as life is not like "CSI" and matching a spent round to a particular gun is only somewhat more complicated than matching a smudged fingerprint to a person.

[jbirds1210]

It might not be a bad idea to keep the cases if there is a possibility of later selling the gun to someone living in a state of Nazi law.

I believe that guns going in to Maryland require the original cases from the factory...

Jason

[propellerhead]

It might not be a bad idea to keep the cases if there is a possibility of later selling the gun to someone living in a state of Nazi law.

I believe that guns going in to Maryland require the original cases from the factory...

Jason

Even on a private sale? I would think that would apply to a gun dealer and not to me.

[jbirds1210]

I am no expert in this.....only what I have read.

People living in states such as Maryland are required to turn these cases over to the state...the citizens there are denied the right of a direct sale via FFL and all chances stop if they do not receive these cases. Only certain models of certain guns are allowed import from "free" states. Gock is a favoirite that the state government likes to pick on and has some kind of requirement that the firearm must be produced before 1998 with cases provided.

If I am wrong about this...someone please jump in! Take care.
Jason

[propellerhead]

They probably don't require the casing to be the very first one ever fired. I could probably fire my gun today and include that casing in a sale.

[bauerdj]

I believe in at least some states (NY for one) if the original fired caseing is no available the gun must be test fired by the state police before the gun can be given to the new owner. This happened to a friend of mine in NY - took three weeks for the state police to fire the round and return the gun. (and my friend is a leo!)

Dave B.

[Rugrash]

While I lived in MD (last 5 years) I bought a few handguns that all were required to have a spent shell casing and bullet submitted to the MD State Police. This was all done automatically and not required to be completed by me personally.

This ballistics fingerprinting is a burden on law enforcement resources who have to maintain the physical inventory as well as the databases that contain all the info on the gun and spent casings. To date not a single case has been solved with the help of BF. I believe MD is mothballing the program as it did not meet the state's expectations and also was costing taxpayers millions of dollars.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=97

Of course our friends, The Brady Bunch, want the program in every state.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issu ... =ballistic

What gun control advocates really want is the proven result of ballistic fingerprinting -- reduced gun sales.

The Maryland law reduced 2001 handgun sales to their lowest level in 10 years. Handgun sales have continued to drop in 2002, according to the Maryland State Police.

[txinvestigator]

To date not a single case has been solved with the help of BF. I believe MD is mothballing the program as it did not meet the state's expectations and also was costing taxpayers millions of dollars.

Thats exactly what I was going to post. They are stopping this program if they have not done so already.

As far as the science, a fired cartridge can be matched up to the gun from which it was fired.

[seamusTX]

As far as the science, a fired cartridge can be matched up to the gun from which it was fired.

Sometimes. I rather doubt that a bullet fired when the gun was new will match one that was fired years and thousands of rounds later.

- Jim

[Thane]

Theoretically, "ballistic fingerprinting" COULD work. Each gun's chamber has very slightly different machining marks from the factory, which do leave their imprint on fired cases.

Here's problem number one - those machining marks do NOT stay constant. Firing the gun while dirty, using steel-cased ammunition, fumbling around while attempting to clear stuck shells; a great many things can alter the machining marks. Having the barrel throated and chamber polished -will- alter the marks as well. Everything from normal wear and tear to bungling to customizing can change the "fingerprint" of the gun, rather readily.

Problem number two is this - people who follow the law in purchasing a gun don't normally break it. As has been said, Maryland's law has resulted in absolutely ZERO solved cases. Crooks use either 1) unregistered/unfingerprinted guns, stolen or bought off the black market, or 2) stolen fingerprinted guns, which can only be traced to the original owner, not to the thief.

[Wilson]

It might not be a bad idea to keep the cases if there is a possibility of later selling the gun to someone living in a state of Nazi law. I believe that guns going in to Maryland require the original cases from the factory.

If you have fired a few hundred rounds from your pistol the spent casings can’t be matched. Dig out a copy of that California Police Dept (LA, IIRC) study of their own pistols. After only a few boxed of ammo and knowing the casings came from only a limited number of pistols they couldn’t match squat. Now imagine how fast the parts would wear if you fired some of that steel cased wolf ammo through a pistol.

With a 10¢ sheet of sandpaper and a faction of an hour, I can alter every metal surface in the pistol that touches the shell casing. There goes a 100 million-dollar database down the toilet and that’s without wasting one round of ammo.