Church Carry (Not Normal)

[srspano]

Here is one for your help with. We started a new Church. This Church is in a Middle School Cafetorium. Our church rents the Cafetorium, 3 rooms and the hallway for our church use. Having said this do you think it is legal to carry at my church since we rent it for said purpose on Sundays? We enter through the rented hall and have service in rented rooms. There is no school business going on.

Thanks
Steve

[McKnife]

This has been asked before... I don't have the Penal code in front of me, but you CANNOT carry on school premises. Sorry.

PC w6.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;
....................

It doesn't specify a time.. just simply states that it's prohibited.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

srspano:
So it looks like your gun needs to stay in the vehicle during church.

Instead bring your kubotan, numchucks, pepper spray, home style Taser,
and some Chinese fighting stars.

That's plan B in my book. :-)

SIA

[karl]

srspano:
So it looks like your gun needs to stay in the vehicle during church.

SIA

Isn't the parking lot school property too? I thought that you couldn't have ANY firearms on the premises. Am I wrong?

[surprise_i'm_armed]

karl:
Under CHL law, you can't take your gun into the school "premises",
which means the buildings themselves,
but CHL's have the right to leave their weapons in their vehicles.

Parking lots, parking structures, etc. are acceptable places to have your
gun, even if said places belong to the school. Or even if a non-school bldg
is posted 30.06, but the parking lot is not posted 30.06.

Someone here will be able to quote you chapter and verse on this issue.

SIA

[shootthesheet]

Just to add a bit you can have your gun on school grounds as long as a school event isn't going on there. If it is a matter of security you could have someone outside the entry doors who is armed. They will have to disarm if they go inside. It is the buildings that are off limits along with school related events.

[Keith B]

Just to add a bit you can have your gun on school grounds as long as a school event isn't going on there. If it is a matter of security you could have someone outside the entry doors who is armed. They will have to disarm if they go inside. It is the buildings that are off limits along with school related events.

A person with a CHL cannot act as security in an official role unless they have some other form of security or LEO certification. Just being a CHL holding member and standing outside is one thing, but make sure they are not playing the part of 'official security'.

[karl]

SIA,

I see, I guess I'll be learning that in a week.

[RiveraRa]

This has been asked before... I don't have the Penal code in front of me, but you CANNOT carry on school premises. Sorry.

PC w6.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;
....................

It doesn't specify a time.. just simply states that it's prohibited.

See the red highlights. Is the church service considered "sponsored by the school". If not, and there are no other school activities going on at the time, then wouldnt this make it legal? My guess is that the church service is "sponsored by the school" and thus makes it illegal. One other question, if the church is paying rent to the school, could you then argue that the service is not sponsored by the school since the church has to pay, and not the school?

[Keith B]

This has been asked before... I don't have the Penal code in front of me, but you CANNOT carry on school premises. Sorry.

PC w6.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;
....................

It doesn't specify a time.. just simply states that it's prohibited.

See the red highlights. Is the church service considered "sponsored by the school". If not, and there are no other school activities going on at the time, then wouldnt this make it legal? My guess is that the church service is "sponsored by the school" and thus makes it illegal. One other question, if the church is paying rent to the school, could you then argue that the service is not sponsored by the school since the church has to pay, and not the school?

Most (and I say most) churches pay for the use of the school facilities for their meetings. The building is still a school and would NOT be exempt the way the law is written. As for the grounds, if no school sponsored activity is being conducted, then CHL carry would be legal outside of the buildings. Disclaimer, IANAL.

[jmorris]

This has been asked before... I don't have the Penal code in front of me, but you CANNOT carry on school premises. Sorry.

PC w6.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;
....................

It doesn't specify a time.. just simply states that it's prohibited.

See the red highlights. Is the church service considered "sponsored by the school". If not, and there are no other school activities going on at the time, then wouldnt this make it legal? My guess is that the church service is "sponsored by the school" and thus makes it illegal. One other question, if the church is paying rent to the school, could you then argue that the service is not sponsored by the school since the church has to pay, and not the school?

It's not "and", it's "or".

...on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
[or] any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted,
or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution...

So it meets the first clause and carry is prohibited. But IANAL.

[bayouhazard]

See the red highlights. Is the church service considered "sponsored by the school". If not, and there are no other school activities going on at the time, then wouldnt this make it legal?

Only if the church service is outdoors. Inside buildings is prohibited by 46.03 no matter who pays. After all, if it's a public school, the taxpayers are paying for the school but that doesn't allow taxpayers to carry in classrooms.

[RPBrown]

Just to add a bit you can have your gun on school grounds as long as a school event isn't going on there. If it is a matter of security you could have someone outside the entry doors who is armed. They will have to disarm if they go inside. It is the buildings that are off limits along with school related events.

A person with a CHL cannot act as security in an official role unless they have some other form of security or LEO certification. Just being a CHL holding member and standing outside is one thing, but make sure they are not playing the part of 'official security'.

Our church have members patrol the parking lot during services. I either disarm or refrain from patrolling just because of this

[BillyBothHands]

a bit off topic but was mentioned in a couple previous posts. If a school district authorizes it you can carry, but takes sign off from the district. Harrold District did this exactly last year I believe. It was on an individual basis, they had to be CHL, approved and take crisis management training.