Just Say No To Serpa?

[jsimmons]

I am conducting the typical (and maniacal) search for a decent holster - and I haven't made a decision yet. It doesn't have to be fancy, but it does have to be some form of OWB (shoulder rig, belt, paddle, whatever). At the same time, I'm considering advanced pistol training, and that's what causes me to ask this question.

I've run across two advanced pistol training web sites that say "absolutely NO Blackhawk holsters allowed". Curious, I sent an email to one of the companies asking why. He responded that the holster is dangerous, specifically:

"I used one early on, and I found it to be too slow in an emergency - that button gets tiny under duress and it is nearly impossible to press if you are not in the perfect position above that button. Plus, I have heard several reports of people shooting themselves as a result of their index fingers slipping in to the trigger guard as they draw the weapon. A good friend of mine just had it happen to him, during a match with dozens of witnesses, here in San Antonio, TX. Luckily it was a 9mm ball round and it went through his thigh and calf with no major damage."

I would call that a tangible reason. Has anyone else ever heard of this? Isn't "slipping into the trigger guard" possible with *any* holster?

[Beiruty]

If you can not keep your trigger finger straight and touch the tab while the finger is extended, then do not carry!.
I have one and I used in the IDPA and IPSC matches. Maybe 0.5s to 1 sec slower if I am not focusing or it is the first draw of the day.

Practice, practice practice your draw from unloaded firearm after 1000 draws, it is just like you open your eyes.

[MoJo]

For concealed carry I prefer a holster without retention the gun is going to be concealed so gun grabs aren't going to be my first worry. A properly fitted and adjusted open top leather or kydex holster will retain your gun during most strenuous activities. At most, a thumb break is all that will be needed. For Law Enforcement or Military, higher levels of retention are appropriate.

[Roscoe]

I don't know about shooting schools not liking them, but it seems like half the security specialists in Iraq and Afghanistan carry them. I don't think there's anything wrong with the holster; perhaps some of the users who have had problems didn't take the time to adequately train with the new rig.

[ELB]

I don't know if Gabe Suarez is one of the trainers you were referring to in the OP, but he does ban them from his training courses. He lays out his reasons, NDs among them here:
http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t ... ight=serpa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here:
http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t ... ight=serpa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and here:
http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t ... ight=serpa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Among noteworthy points:

In fact, the gun was so tightly held in the holster that, with one person applying both hands to the release button and another person applying two hands to the pistol, the gun could not be freed. Upon inspection, a small piece of gravel, approximately the size of the head of a pin, had managed to work itself into the Serpa release button and wedge the lock in place.

This also appeared recently:
http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t ... ight=serpa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; referencing problems a police agency encountered.

I have never used on, but it does seem a bad idea to assign a second function to the trigger finger. I am happy with my CTAC, and don't see a reason to change.


Good luck.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I OC on my proerty with one and absolutely love it. As stated above. If you cannot draw w/ your finger off the trigger. Then DONT carry. If its gonna be CC then the retention is just another obsticle to clear. If its OC...just practice, practice, practice. The finger release is the best I have come across. Easy to disengage and places your finger in proper position on pistol (so long as you do not move it and know what you are doing). All in all I have no issues with the BH Serpa and think its a great OC holster.

[Tireshred]

I bought one on a friends recommendation, after some fiddling I got it to release the gun ok, but I never got the hang of getting it out consistently as fast as my Fobus passive restraint holsters. For CC passive is the best for me. I've seen a lot of folks who don't like Fobus, but for me they are the best I've found, even beats the expensive ones I've bought. YMMV

[CompVest]

I have never used on, but it does seem a bad idea to assign a second function to the trigger finger. I am happy with my CTAC, and don't see a reason to change.

+1 I believe that less is better. Less to operate and train to use that means less to mess you up when moments count.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

The Serpa is meant as a Tactical OC holster. Therefore they have an auto-retention feature. When operated correctly the trigger finger falls in the proper position on the gun when you are not ready to fire.

[ske1eter]

I believe I'd consider Gabe Suarez' opinion to carry a bit more weight than the "armchair warriors" when it comes to thoughts on the Serpa .

[C-dub]

I have a level 2 serpa and like the extra security. I did buy it with the intention of open carrying in the states where legal. I've been to a couple, but chickened out. It just felt to wierd the first couple of opportunities and the last time when I was going to do it it was raining, so I was wearing a rain jacket. Oh well, next time. I've practiced drawing wiht it, unloaded, and didn't see the problem in question. However, under stress, I guess anything could happen.

[fm2]

Has anyone else ever heard of this? Isn't "slipping into the trigger guard" possible with *any* holster?

It is possible to slip the finger into the trigger guard using any holster. Most people want their trigger finger to do one thing, press the trigger when needed.

The issue is that you are pressing the lock with your trigger finger as part of the drawstroke. That pressing action is very similar to pressing the trigger and under tasking, adreanal dump, time constraints, etc.. your trigger finger can get confused. What happens is people have pressed the lock while pulling the pistol from the holster and kept on pressing as the pistol cleared the holster and that motion allowed the trigger finger to slip onto the trigger.


IMHO, the Safariland ALS is a better option.

[CompVest]

I can not get my finger on the trigger with any of my Comp-tac holsters with the gun is properly holstered!

[C-dub]

I can not get my finger on the trigger with any of my Comp-tac holsters with the gun is properly holstered!

What is being debated is not while it is in the holster, but because of the requirement to exert pressure on a button to release the weapon from the holster some are saying that this might result in that same finger automatically entering the trigger guard once it clears the holster. However, I have not had this problem.

[gmckinl]

In Phoenix this spring, I watched Todd Jarrett fumble the draw five times out of six due to somehow missing the lock and yanking on a pistol that wouldn't release from the holster. That's all the confirmation I need that I don't want one.