8-12-09 Boy's Shooting Death - "jostled a backpack"

[blc]

Haven't seen this discussed on here yet - but flag me if it is.

Tragic article this morning:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 70579.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"An 11-year-old boy died from a gunshot wound to the head Wednesday in what police said appeared to be an accident at his family's home in south Houston.

The boy, who has not been identified, was fatally shot about 7:30 p.m. while he and two siblings, ages 10 and 14, were searching for a telephone in the upstairs master bedroom of their home in the 800 block of Blanchard Hill Lane, Houston police said.

While searching for the telephone, the children apparently jostled a backpack with a 9mm semi-automatic pistol inside. The handgun discharged, striking the 11-year-old, police said.

“That's what we're being told,” said HPD homicide investigator J.T. Barringer. “Everything is still under investigation. We're still interviewing witnesses.“

The child was pronounced dead at the scene, police said.

Detectives said the pistol inside the backpack belonged to the child's mother. “She kept the gun for protection,” Barringer said.

Crime scene investigators placed paper bags over the hands of the other children along with the two adults — the mother and her boyfriend — who were at the home.

“That's how we get the gunshot residue to ensure that nobody in the home fired the weapon,” Barringer said.

Police said Harris County prosecutors will determine if any charges will be filed.

Neighbor Tiffany DeRousselle said she often saw the children playing in the front yard of their two-story home.

“They're joyful kids. It's a tragedy,” DeRousselle said. "



"Jostled a backpack with a 9mm semi-automatic pistol inside" ?! Is it just me, or does this seem rather far-fetched? I don't know of too many handguns that will go off because the pack they were in was 'jostled' ?

What do y'all think?

[Beiruty]

This is why my wife make sure the moment I am home, the pistol goes in the safe. That is specially when my pistol is holstered in a fannypack.

[dicion]

"Jostled a backpack with a 9mm semi-automatic pistol inside" ?! Is it just me, or does this seem rather far-fetched? I don't know of too many handguns that will go off because the pack they were in was 'jostled' ?

What do y'all think?

I concur. There's very few firearms that would go off that way, and then, while it is possible, it is very highly unlikely IMO.

I hope we find out more information.

[thankGod]

It seems highly unlikely. I think there is more information to come.

[Keith B]

This is a real sad situation, but I can see it happening as stated. Any DAO pistol that has a light trigger (aka Glock) laying loose in a backpack could get something in the backpack pushed into the trigger guard. If they shove (jostle) the backpack and put 5-6 lbs of force on it while trying to move it out of the way, the item could pull the trigger. Some Glocks even have the 3.5 lb disconnecter on them, and they are really light.

This is why I have my CCW in a holster that covers the trigger at all times, even in the console of the car, glovebox or backpack.

[dicion]

This is a real sad situation, but I can see it happening as stated. Any DAO pistol that has a light trigger (aka Glock) laying loose in a backpack could get something in the backpack pushed into the trigger guard. If they shove (jostle) the backpack and put 5-6 lbs of force on it while trying to move it out of the way, the item could pull the trigger. Some Glocks even have the 3.5 lb disconnecter on them, and they are really light.

This is why I have my CCW in a holster that covers the trigger at all times, even in the console of the car, glovebox or backpack.

I agree... I didn't want to name any specific names in my earlier post ... but this is probably the only way I could see this happening. Perhaps with a DA revolver as well, but less likely, due to the greater force required.

If it is true, and did happen this way, then the fault is squarely on the adult for not securing the firearm properly.

[Keith B]

This is a real sad situation, but I can see it happening as stated. Any DAO pistol that has a light trigger (aka Glock) laying loose in a backpack could get something in the backpack pushed into the trigger guard. If they shove (jostle) the backpack and put 5-6 lbs of force on it while trying to move it out of the way, the item could pull the trigger. Some Glocks even have the 3.5 lb disconnecter on them, and they are really light.

This is why I have my CCW in a holster that covers the trigger at all times, even in the console of the car, glovebox or backpack.

I agree... I didn't want to name any specific names in my earlier post ... but this is probably the only way I could see this happening. Perhaps with a DAO revolver as well, but less likely, due to the greater force required.

If it is true, and did happen this way, then the fault is squarely on the adult for not securing the firearm properly.

I was not really pointing fingers at Glocks specifically, there are lots of others that have fairly light triggers. I don't really have statistics to back it up, but would bet Glocks are probably the most common pistol out there for a lot of folks that carry.

[dicion]

This is a real sad situation, but I can see it happening as stated. Any DAO pistol that has a light trigger (aka Glock) laying loose in a backpack could get something in the backpack pushed into the trigger guard. If they shove (jostle) the backpack and put 5-6 lbs of force on it while trying to move it out of the way, the item could pull the trigger. Some Glocks even have the 3.5 lb disconnecter on them, and they are really light.

This is why I have my CCW in a holster that covers the trigger at all times, even in the console of the car, glovebox or backpack.

I agree... I didn't want to name any specific names in my earlier post ... but this is probably the only way I could see this happening. Perhaps with a DAO revolver as well, but less likely, due to the greater force required.

If it is true, and did happen this way, then the fault is squarely on the adult for not securing the firearm properly.

I was not really pointing fingers at Glocks specifically, there are lots of others that have fairly light triggers. I don't really have statistics to back it up, but would bet Glocks are probably the most common pistol out there for a lot of folks that carry.

That brings out a good question, I know Glocks are the most (in?)famous for their 'safety trigger' design, with no other safeties, but what other handguns (popular or unpopular) have this, or something similar?
I know the XD series has a grip safety in addition to a trigger safety. I can't think of another semi-auto manufacturer off the top of my head... Im sure there has to be some though. (There's LOTS of brands that I have never owned nor fired)

Obviously, theres some revolvers out there like this as well, but unless it's a pre-cocked DA/SA, the trigger pull is magnitudes harder than a Glock's.

[mr.72]

That brings out a good question, I know Glocks are the most (in?)famous for their 'safety trigger' design, with no other safeties, but what other handguns (popular or unpopular) have this, or something similar?

There are a bunch of DAO pistols that do not have any external safety. Smith & Wesson M&P and Sigma lines have an articulated trigger that constitutes a "trigger safety", such that unless you pull the lower half of the trigger it won't fire. Kel-Tecs and Ruger LCP don't have any kind of safety at all, no trigger safety or manual safety, etc. Just "between the ears" safety. But they have a relatively long trigger pull making an accidental firing like this unlikely but certainly not impossible. Many Taurus striker-fired pistols are similar. Kahr pistols have a 7-8 lb trigger with a relatively short pull by DAO standards and no other safety mechanism. I would think a Kahr could probably be accidentally fired while in a bag or otherwise relatively easily.

The advantage of these no-manual-safety, DAO pistols is their ease of use. You just draw and fire, nothing else to learn. But this is a two-sided coin. You have to make sure you are storing or carrying them safely. Tossing a G19 in a backpack with other items is not a good plan. A ball-point pen would easily find its way wedged into the trigger guard and that's an accident waiting to happen.

[dicion]

Good to know, that is exactly the information I was looking for.

This is why everyone should know the guns they own, inside and out.
Just tossing ANY handgun into a backpack, loaded, and unsecured like this is irresponsible at best, but I'd consider it downright neglegent in this case.

Unfortunately, the 'other group' will most likely want to parade this as a gun just 'going off'.
Yet, they'd probably have no qualms blaming the person if they just threw an unsheathed sharp knife into the same backpack, and someone got cut.

[Excaliber]

This is a real sad situation, but I can see it happening as stated. Any DAO pistol that has a light trigger (aka Glock) laying loose in a backpack could get something in the backpack pushed into the trigger guard. If they shove (jostle) the backpack and put 5-6 lbs of force on it while trying to move it out of the way, the item could pull the trigger. Some Glocks even have the 3.5 lb disconnecter on them, and they are really light.

This is why I have my CCW in a holster that covers the trigger at all times, even in the console of the car, glovebox or backpack.

Keith is dead on here. A loose handgun with an uncovered trigger guard can be discharged by unanticipated combinations of contact with other objects and pressure that can be brought about in many different circumstances. Lots of folks have shot themselves this way with many different weapon types, including DA revolvers. Depending on the orientation of the muzzle at the time, it is certainly possible to shoot others accidentally this way.

In the specific instance described here, I'm reserving judgment due to insufficient information. While the generally described method of discharge is possible, there would have to be an almost incredible amount of bad luck involved. There are also several other more likely possibilities, including the victim reaching into the backpack and accidentally depressing the trigger as he felt around inside, or someone found the gun, pointed and discharged it, and he or someone else then put it in the backpack. I'm in wait and see mode on that.

[Vic303]

If the pistol fired from INSIDE the backpack, it ought to be obvious...as it will leave a HOLE in the pack...and there would be little need to bag the hands of everyone else in the house. Methinks the PD suspects someone was playing with Mom's pistol.

[USA1]

If the pistol fired from INSIDE the backpack, it ought to be obvious...as it will leave a HOLE in the pack...and there would be little need to bag the hands of everyone else in the house. Methinks the PD suspects someone was playing with Mom's pistol.

good observation

[Keith B]

If the pistol fired from INSIDE the backpack, it ought to be obvious...as it will leave a HOLE in the pack...and there would be little need to bag the hands of everyone else in the house. Methinks the PD suspects someone was playing with Mom's pistol.

I agree. There is probably more to this story than is out now. Even if the pistol was still in the backpack, they are going to want to see if there is GSR on the hands of anyone who was reaching around inside the bag when the pistol was discharged.

[portsider44]

Very sad story, I feel for the family that will have to bear the what-ifs for life. While I know it could happen as described, but is a little hard to believe.

That said this is a classic example of poor gun safety. As the father of 4 kids the thought of leaving a loaded gun anywhere within reach of kids is just asking for trouble. Kids are way too curious for that, plus carrying a gun loose whether it’s in a pocket, waist ban (Plaxico Burress), back pack, or gym bag is not safe. I think people sometimes lose focus on the fact that holsters are not only for helping you carry a gun in comfort, but to also to do it safely.