Can LEO's use full auto M4's/M16's? Or just AR-15's?

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Here's something I've wondered about for while, and I thought I would toss it out to the crowd.

Many police cars have shotguns that you can see in the front passenger area of the car.

Some officers have long weapons in the trunk, in case something really bad goes down.

Are police officers allowed to use fully automatic M4's or M16's?

Also, are these weapons fully automatic, or do they just have single shot and 3 round burst
modes?

It seems I've read that some PD's have bought AR-15's, which are semi-automatic.

Is there a line drawn that SWAT teams can use full auto, but the beat officers must use semi-auto
long guns?

[Mike1951]

Use really has nothing to do with it.

if a shooting would have been justified with a 9mm pistol, it shouldn't affect the legality if the shooting was done with a full auto firearm.

Legal ownership is the issue. Departments may purchase class 3 firearms and issue them to their officers as they see fit.

Individual officers also purchase class 3 firearms on their own. It is frequently no issue for a working officer to obtain the chief law enforcement signature.

Beyond this, almost everything depends on department policy.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Mike1951:
Since a special federal license is required to own a machine gun, I wasn't sure if
the cops have some special authority to use one.

As far as "Class 3" firearms, could you define that for those of us who don't know
what that includes? Thanks.

SIA

[Mike1951]

Class 3 firearms require payment of a $200 tax, not a federal license, to own. The application is detailed and requires the approval and signature of one of several chief law enforcement officers in your area. This particular process is practically impossible for many of us since in many areas it is policy not to sign these applications. Law enforcement officers typically don't have this roadblock.

Other processes to legally purchase class 3 firearms are by forming of a trust or corporation.

Class 3 includes full auto (3 shot burst is same thing), suppressors, short barrelled rifles (SBR), any-other-weapon (AOW, BATFE catch all), short barrelled shotguns (SBS). The tax on some is just $5, but the process is the same.

As has been discussed here a few times, carrying a legally owned full auto or short barrelled firearm isn't illegal. Just know that it WILL draw attention and you must keep your paperwork with the firearm.

I'm not the resident expert here. Better information will follow, I'm sure.

[Purplehood]

If you obtained the Class 3 license (or whatever the proper terminology is), would that mean that you could conceal-carry one of those Glock Automatic pistols or the like?

[WEC]

If you obtained the Class 3 license (or whatever the proper terminology is), would that mean that you could conceal-carry one of those Glock Automatic pistols or the like?

Actually, all that you would obtain is a canceled $200 tax stamp, but the accompanying paperwork is your "license" of sorts. But yes, you're right in that once obtaining the clearance from BATFE to possess such an item, you are able to carry around an automatic pistol. However, you run into the stipulation that when transporting an automatic weapon from county to county, you are urged (I'm not sure if "required" is the actual verbiage set by the BATFE) to inform the law enforcement office of the destination county. At least I remember some sort of rule about this...

[PUCKER]

WEC - it's state to state, not county to county.

Here's the form: http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f532020.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jbirds1210]

The only full-auto M4 I have ever seen in a department vehicle was the trunk of a Texas Ranger.

Jason

[DoubleJ]

The only full-auto M4 I have ever seen in a department vehicle was the trunk of a Texas Ranger.

Jason

Don't tell me, Hank Blaylock?

or maybe it was Kenny Rogers before he beat up that cameraman... ahhahaha


oh, wrong Rangers.....

[WEC]

WEC - it's state to state, not county to county.

Here's the form: http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f532020.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the clarification.

[boomerang]

If you obtained the Class 3 license (or whatever the proper terminology is), would that mean that you could conceal-carry one of those Glock Automatic pistols or the like?

Actually, all that you would obtain is a canceled $200 tax stamp, but the accompanying paperwork is your "license" of sorts. But yes, you're right in that once obtaining the clearance from BATFE to possess such an item, you are able to carry around an automatic pistol.

But the Glock 18 (or conversion) would have to be registered more than 20 years ago if you're a private citizen thanks to Reagan-era gun control.

[Purplehood]

The only full-auto M4 I have ever seen in a department vehicle was the trunk of a Texas Ranger.

Jason

I carried a 3-round burst only M-4 in Afghanistan. The last time I had a full-auto capable M-16 was in Boot Camp at Parris Island in 1976. Do the Armed Forces even issue full-auto M4/M16's to anyone other than SpecOps now?

[ELB]

... and requires the approval and signature of one of several chief law enforcement officers in your area. This particular process is practically impossible for many of us since in many areas it is policy not to sign these applications...

NFA stuff can also be owned by trusts and corporations. Trusts, at least do not require the signature of the local chief law enforcement officer. (I don't think corporations do either). Individuals can establish trusts which own NFA items, thus not needing to disturb the local CLEO. Some states pretty much ban NFA items, but Texas is not one of them. There are some issues when it comes to crossing state lines, but within the state you are good to go once you have the tax paperwork in hand. I am not interested in "machine guns" but the trusts work for SBRs and suppressors and such. Haven't done this myself yet, but maybe down the road.

There is a lawyer who runs a website and blog dealing with gun trusts, and says he can link you up with an attorney specializing in them in your state (at least for Texas and Florida. I am not recommending him as I don't know anything about him other than what I read on his website, but it is a starting point if you are interested. Here is his url:
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Police departments of course can purchase their own full-auto (or partial auto i.e. three round burst) firearms, and can authorize their officers to use the officers' own legally owned NFA weapons. In the recent past there were some officers who ended up in hot water because they were buying NFA rifles for themselves from manufacturers using orders done on department letterhead (apparently with their chiefs' permissions in at least some cases) -- thus it looked like the department was buying the guns, so they were getting brand new "machine guns," and also avoiding the tax I think. Then the fed gummint caught on, and things started getting ugly. Did not hear a final resolution on this...

[KFP]

I believe that it is up to the individual department. IIRC some of the departments in the area equip a number of their patrol cars with full autos, in addition to SWAT which definitely has options (explosives are most impressive). The basis behind the idea is that, in all reality, it's probably a beat cop that would run into a situation that warrants the fire power to at least suppress the situation until other units/SWAT can be on scene.

[Tactical_Texan_CHL]

I know for a fact that Odessa PD carries full auto surplus M16 A1's in the trunks of their patrol cars. My brother and a good friend showed them to me when they first got them. They are A1 all the way to the pencil barrel, 3 prong flash hider, and triangular handguards. SWAT carries an assortment of full auto M4's and M16's. My friend on SWAT there has a Bushmaster in a "Commando" configuration as his issued SWAT rifle. He's even allowed to check it out of the armory to take to the range, although their range sgt doesn't allow anyone but the officer to shoot it, and requires that they check out ammo as well so he knows no one is shooting Wolf or Monarch through them.