UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

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pdubyoo
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#61

Post by pdubyoo »

Purplehood wrote:
In Congressional testimony, Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayer claimed she couldn't think of a self-defense case having come before the Supreme Court, adding, "I could be wrong, but I can't think of one."
That was a cheap shot. You left out three words at the end of her statement, and you complain when the "liberal" media does the same thing.

If you leave those three words out, than all of the shrill articles and diatribes above apply. When you put the whole statement out there for everyone to see and analyze, you get a typical lawyer response but not the one it is being made out to be.

I will leave you all to draw your own conclusions on this limited data and find the actual words she spoke. It is apparent that some will go to the exact same lengths that they decry in liberals and leftists to garner the results that they want.

Here is the exact transcript...
COBURN: Thank you. Let me follow up with one other question. As a citizen of this country, do you believe innately in my ability to have self-defense of myself -- personal self-defense? Do I have a right to personal self- defense?

SOTOMAYOR: I'm trying to think if I remember a case where the Supreme Court has addressed that particular question. Is there a constitutional right to self-defense? And I can't think of one. I could be wrong, but I can't think of one.

SOTOMAYOR: Generally, as I understand, most criminal law statutes are passed by states. And I'm also trying to think if there's any federal law that includes a self-defense provision or not. I just can't.
What I was attempting to explain is that the issue of self- defense is usually defined in criminal statutes by the state's laws. And I would think, although I haven't studied the -- all of the state's laws, I'm intimately familiar with New York.

COBURN: But do you have an opinion, or can you give me your opinion, of whether or not in this country I personally, as an individual citizen, have a right to self-defense?

SOTOMAYOR: I -- as I said, I don't know.

COBURN: I'm talking about your...

SOTOMAYOR: I don't know if that legal question has been ever presented.

COBURN: I wasn't asking about the legal question. I'm asking about your personal opinion.

SOTOMAYOR: But that is sort of an abstract question with no particular meaning to me outside of...

COBURN: Well, I think that's what American people want to hear, Your Honor, is they want to know. Do they have a right to personal self-defense?

Do -- does the Second Amendment mean something under the 14th Amendment? Does what the Constitution -- how they take the Constitution, not how our bright legal minds but what they think is important, is it OK to defend yourself in your home if you're under attack?

In other words, the general theory is do I have that right? And I understand if you don't want to answer that because it might influence your position that you might have in a case, and that's a fine answer with me.
But I -- those are the kind of things people would like for us to answer and would like to know, not how you would rule or what you're going to rule, but -- and specifically what you think about, but just yes or no. Do we have that right?

SOTOMAYOR: I know it's difficult to deal with someone as a -- like a judge who's so sort of -- whose thinking is so cornered by law.
Which three words are you speaking of? Is it the three words..."I don't know"? If so, it doesn't change the meaning of her previous statements to me.
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Purplehood
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#62

Post by Purplehood »

I apologize to whomever I was addressing when I stated "that was a cheap shot". I think it was Pdubyoo, but can't find the post that I was referring to.
I discovered to my deep ire and regret that the magical three words that were missing were sourced from an unreliable source that was paraphrasing Judge Sotomayor and not quoting her as it should have been. So once again, I apologize for my statement.

When it comes down to it, I don't see anything alarming regarding this nomination. In fact I find her to be typical judge-fodder, i.e.; incomprehensible to a layman like myself. I am not convinced of her danger to our 2nd Amendment rights. I do however reserve the right to be paranoid simply about the fact that it was our Socialist President that nominated her, and I really, really hope you folks don't ever have to say, "I told you so".
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#63

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Purplehood...

I believe that those 3 words were what PW posted..."I don't know..."

I agree, that does soften the position somewhat...

I my experience, if you use the phrase, "I don't know." it was an accepted form of, "...If I don't know, and I had better go find out where to find the answer!" to the people I work for (or used to)...

Most of us realize she is not going to be an asset for the country beyond empathetic, "life-experiences" applying, liberal biased opinions on cases coming before the court...There is no denying that, and no reason to gloss that fact over...And that position extends WAYYYY out of the scope on Second Amendment issues...We already know whare she will fall on that...

Let me be the first to say 4 words..."I told you so" :cheers2: :thumbs2:
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Purplehood
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#64

Post by Purplehood »

At this point we are simply spouting opposing view-points at one another. I guess the proof will be in the pudding (whatever that means). After all, we both know that her nomination is going to be confirmed. We will then start seeing the finger-pointing.
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#65

Post by 74novaman »

Purplehood wrote:At this point we are simply spouting opposing view-points at one another. I guess the proof will be in the pudding (whatever that means). After all, we both know that her nomination is going to be confirmed. We will then start seeing the finger-pointing.
The only good thing is she's already replacing a liberal on the court. If we lose one of the 5 that voted the right way for Heller, we may be in big trouble.
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#66

Post by jimlongley »

All I see in that exchange is someone refusing to answer the question as asked, and again I have to wonder if she would allow such a thing to happen in her court.

I thiink we not only ave reason to be worried, I think we should all be writing to our Senators to object to her confirmation, based strictly on her refusal to answer direct questions openly and honestly, as I have done.
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Purplehood
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#67

Post by Purplehood »

jimlongley wrote:All I see in that exchange is someone refusing to answer the question as asked, and again I have to wonder if she would allow such a thing to happen in her court.

I thiink we not only ave reason to be worried, I think we should all be writing to our Senators to object to her confirmation, based strictly on her refusal to answer direct questions openly and honestly, as I have done.
Wow. And you have never seen that happen before in a Senate hearing on either side of the aisle?
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#68

Post by Dexdahex »

Purplehood wrote:
jimlongley wrote:All I see in that exchange is someone refusing to answer the question as asked, and again I have to wonder if she would allow such a thing to happen in her court.

I thiink we not only ave reason to be worried, I think we should all be writing to our Senators to object to her confirmation, based strictly on her refusal to answer direct questions openly and honestly, as I have done.
Wow. And you have never seen that happen before in a Senate hearing on either side of the aisle?
:iagree: Here's MHO If you don't answer a direct question, you should not be able to vote on that topic at all, furthermore you should not be allow to to speak on the subject at all. :txflag:

Simple NO ANSWER = NO VOTE, OR ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT..

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jimlongley
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#69

Post by jimlongley »

Purplehood wrote:
jimlongley wrote:All I see in that exchange is someone refusing to answer the question as asked, and again I have to wonder if she would allow such a thing to happen in her court.

I thiink we not only ave reason to be worried, I think we should all be writing to our Senators to object to her confirmation, based strictly on her refusal to answer direct questions openly and honestly, as I have done.
Wow. And you have never seen that happen before in a Senate hearing on either side of the aisle?
Never said or even implied, just I expect votes against someone who refuses to give straight and honest answers. I have written and emailed my senators, have you?
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#70

Post by Abraham »

Some have become so desensitized to this type slimebag obfuscation as to see it as normal and perhaps even acceptable...

Hey, they ALL do it - so it's okay...

Right?

(Pretending to be a dunce is so de rigueur)

No wonder the young are disgusted with our system.
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#71

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Abraham wrote:No wonder the young are disgusted with our system.
And they are very susceptable to "progressive" and "empathetic" reasonings dispite the law, the Constitution and common sense...

Life experiences, emotions, social justice, etc etc...Those are the paths to destruction of civilized, logical and sensible society...

I am certainly not a perfect person...Yet I understand that I am totally responsible and accountable for my actions...Something seriously lacking in some of the yutes around the world today...
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#72

Post by Abraham »

"Life experiences"?

My life experience has helped me recognize smoke blowers like Sotomayor.

I don't get your reference to it as being part of a path to destruction?
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#73

Post by 74novaman »

stevie_d_64 wrote:
Abraham wrote:No wonder the young are disgusted with our system.
And they are very susceptable to "progressive" and "empathetic" reasonings dispite the law, the Constitution and common sense...

Life experiences, emotions, social justice, etc etc...Those are the paths to destruction of civilized, logical and sensible society...

I am certainly not a perfect person...Yet I understand that I am totally responsible and accountable for my actions...Something seriously lacking in some of the yutes around the world today...
""I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint" (Hesiod, 8th century BC)."

As a younger guy (22), I love seeing things like this. Yes, there are certainly problems with my generation. Just as there were problems with our parents, and even our grandparents generations. Rather then disparage those who act foolishly and do not care about the Constitution or listen to their college profs as if they learned it all during their time in academia and are "progressive", perhaps we should encourage the youth who are involved, responsible and are the next generation of conservative thought and speech. Just my humble, respectful .02. :tiphat:
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#74

Post by Drewthetexan »

stevie_d_64 wrote:
Abraham wrote:No wonder the young are disgusted with our system.
And they are very susceptable to "progressive" and "empathetic" reasonings dispite the law, the Constitution and common sense...

Life experiences, emotions, social justice, etc etc...Those are the paths to destruction of civilized, logical and sensible society...

I am certainly not a perfect person...Yet I understand that I am totally responsible and accountable for my actions...Something seriously lacking in some of the yutes around the world today...
There is a phenomenon occuring now where the parents of today's youth are actually impeding their children's sense of responsibility and accountability. They are called helicopter parents because they constantly hover about their kids, making decisions for them, sheltering them, and keeping them from actually experiencing life the way it is - cruel, unforgiving, and relentless. more info here. Perhaps these parents need lessons in responsibility and accountability, particularly if they are to rely on the decisions of their children some time down the road?

I'd argue that life experiences are integral to good leadership. I believe that the framers of the Constitution also believed this, else why have age requirements to hold office? Life experience, amongst a host of other factors, gives us perspective. And the broader our perspective, regarding politics, the better equipped we are to make sound decisions concerning the wide range of your constituents' interests.

In the case of The SCOTUS, there is some insularity between the immediate interests of the people and a duty to uphold the Constitution. That's why they get lifetime appointments. But they still need some real, formative experience to help shape their views and understanding of the intent of what was written in the Constitution. If interpreting case law was an easy, cut and dried thing, we wouldn't have a supreme court.
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Re: UPDATE: Coburn vs. Sotomayor

#75

Post by Bart »

jimlongley wrote:Never said or even implied, just I expect votes against someone who refuses to give straight and honest answers.
She can't tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I will be disappointed but not surprised if Senators vote for a kindred spirit.
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