Road rager on Beltway 8

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Excaliber
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#46

Post by Excaliber »

Abraham wrote:The eye contact scenario refined:

Maintaining eye contact with a "road rager" while driving would be unwise from a number of perspectives.

Employing discreet eye contact, if one encounters a rager while driving (as a component of self preservation) is quite another...
Direct eye contact isn't discrete, and lots of folks with anger management or intoxication issues react aggressively to it.

I would agree that it's advisable to keep a general view of the potential threat without direct eye contact until you can get safely away.
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#47

Post by roberts »

Purplehood wrote:It is common sense to "yield" to faster traffic. It is not common sense to force folks to yield by riding on their behinds at high speeds.
:iagree: It makes more sense to pass on the right in that situation. Passing on the right is legal on Texas highways and it's quicker and more mature than getting in a dispute with someone hogging the left lane.
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Trying to get back on topic.

#48

Post by austin-tatious »

I've often wondered if acknowledging the presence of the rager with a smile and nod in their direction, then steadfastly not looking at them while doing what you can to let them get ahead would calm things down quicker than simply ignoring them. Your thoughts?
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#49

Post by Drewthetexan »

It's not just the people driving excessively fast that get killed, they cause accidents too. Some goofy old man (he really was a goofy old man, not being snide to older folks) doing 80 drove into the back-left corner of my car. I have thought about it at length and I have decided that had I been even 100% vigilant it was an unavoidable collision because of the scenario. I was in the middle lane, doing 65 in a 60 at 8am on a friday morning. The highway curved to the left and the guy just went straight. I immediately lost control and hit the barrier wall at 45-50 mph. Frankly I'm glad I did, because the alternative was oncoming traffic, and we know how those end. I now watch my 6 about 40% of the time I'm on the highway rather than checking every now and again.

When it comes to road rage, I think OP did what any rational individual would have done given the circumstances. Try to disengage, call the police, and be ready for anything.
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#50

Post by Fangs »

Am I the only one who doesn't feel a need to get personally involved with the other people on the road? It's just always seemed to me that it's impersonal and just a matter of what options are and aren't available. If there's an opening I take it, if I'm blocked in, I'm blocked in until the setup changes. I don't get why this is so frustrationg to everyone else. :confused5

Granted, I generally do anywhere from 5 to 65 miles and hour over the limit when I can, but doing 45 in a 60 doesn't get me upset at the guy in front of me. I just keep my eyes open for a place to pass safely. And if my speeding upsets people, well, I don't have any tickets on my record and I've never been involved in an accident other than from the passenger seat, so meh. :biggrinjester:

There was this one time though back in high school where a guy sat at the front of a line of about 20 cars doing 40 in a 60. I finally managed to pass him (and the 5 or 7 cars between us) to make it to the front of the line. At this point I dropped it down to 20 miles and hour. Hehehehe. Of course when he tried to illegally pass me in a turning lane I jumped it up to 120 and took off. But I was thoroughly amused.
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#51

Post by dicion »

I personally see it this way.

My speeding is my choice. If you are properly in the right lane, it will not affect you at all. I'll pass you in a few seconds, and you will most likely never see me again.
Me choosing to speed can get me a ticket only.

You lingering in the left lane affects anyone behind you who wants to pass. If you are in the left lane, and there is no-one to your right, you are both inconveniencing someone who wants to pass you, and forcing them to break a law to do so if they end up passing you on the right (which is illegal IIRC).

One affects that driver only.
The other affects other people.

Granted, yes, some idiot speeding and cutting people off and riding their rear bumper does affect other people as well. I do not do that. If I approach you and you are lingering in the left lane, and it is obvious that you can easily move over, I will flash my headlights to let you know that I am there, in case you missed the giant white truck with obvious LED strobes mounted in my front grille and windshield, and remain a few car lengths back until you move over. After I pass you, I will move directly into the right lane as soon as I have reached a safe distance past you.

I've found that suddenly, people drive a lot better, and move over quicker if your vehicle appears that it may be some kind of Law Enforcement Vehicle. (Which mine does in the rear view mirror. All I'm missing is the brush guard).

My question is, why don't they drive like that all the time? That shows that they KNOW that they're supposed to move over, but rather, choose not to, except when they think it may get them a ticket.

My personal motto of driving, is to drive so no-one else has to touch their brakes because of my actions. Only myself.

Example 1: In a lane merge where you are exactly beside them, Driving to the front and cutting them off by merging in at the very end of the merge, requires They use their brakes... since you cut them off. Slowing down, and getting behind them instead, only requires You to use your brakes. You can then pass them on the left when it is safe to do so.

Example 2: This Scenario is also very common. You are in the right lane, approaching a vehicle in front of you that you will have to pass to maintain your desired speed. However, there is a Faster car approaching you, about to pass you in the left lane. What do you do?
a) Move left quickly, cutting off the left lane driver so you can get through first.
b) Tap your brakes, wait behind the car in front of you until the left lane guy passes, then get behind him and pass the car in front of you.
Which is the answer? apply my 'drive so no-one else has to touch their brakes because of my actions' motto above and the answer is clear.

Example 3: You are lingering in the left lane. A car is fast approaching you from your rear, obviously going faster than you. You have room to your right to move over.
Once again, apply the above and the answer is clear.

If Everyone drove according to that simple rule, In my opinion, it would solve a lot of the congestion and lane changing issues.

Also, Turn signals are not meant to be used when you're already commencing your turn or lane change. Turn signals mean "I would like to turn/change lanes, and will do so when It is safe and convenient to do so." Most people apparently do not know this, and assume it means 'I'm going, NOW'. Then they get mad when I do not slam on my brakes and let them in immediately as I am approaching & passing them at a considerably higher rate of speed.

If I turn on my turn signal to move into the left lane as you are approaching me in said lane, that does not mean that I'm about to cut you off, rather, I am signaling that I will be changing into that lane after you have passed me, and it is safe to do so.

Call me a die-hard, but I have lived and driven all over the country, and actually, the World, and Texas is one of Very few places that appears to have this problem. If you linger in the left lane in some parts of Europe (where I have lived for 4 years), prepare to get rear-ended as people want to pass you. Also, over there, if you get rear ended because you are lingering, it is Your fault, and you will be liable for damages. Also, if you are passing someone on the Right, and they change lanes into you, it is also your fault. Not saying I agree with those laws, I'm just saying that that's how serious they take lingering & passing on the right over there.

Brussels Belgium is a city the same size as Houston, about 5 million people. I'd say that people commuted as much as, if not more than, most Houstonites. However, their highways were mostly only 2 lanes wide, and they did not have as bad as traffic jams as we do here during rush hour. Something to Consider.
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#52

Post by Liberty »

dicion wrote:
Purplehood wrote: So how fast is fast? The guy was in excess of the speed limit by 6 mph. That isn't fast enough and he needs to get out of the way? Should he be doing a minimum of 100mph? Please move to Germany and drive on the Autobahn.
You obviously don't know the beltway. :mrgreen:

6 over is right-lane speed. If you're not going 70, you will get run over.

There's the speed limit, and then there's what people actually drive... Trying to justify left-lane usage by saying 'im going over the speed limit' is not practical.

The left lane is the passing lane, plain and simple. If you are being Passed on the right in it, no matter if theyre passing you at 80mph, you are doing it wrong, and should move over and let them pass on the left.

Now, if the person was approaching SO FAST that you did not have time to move over between the time you saw him, and he was on your right side, then obviously, you couldn't move over. Not your fault. My question, however, is why were you in the left lane to begin with if there was (apparently) noone in the right lane next to you before this car came.

Not blaming anything on you, but I'm just saying how some people take the 'AAARGH!! LEFT LANE FOR PASSING ONLY!!! DIE!!!' thing way too seriously, so why give them fuel to their fire. Just move to the right lane whenever you can, even if there is noone directly behind you, just in case some crazy dude doing 100 suddenly appears on your rear and wants to pass.
Maybe if just a few people would drive the speed limmit in the right hand lane we would be helping others actually be law abiding?

Just a thought :evil2:
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#53

Post by Drewthetexan »

dicion wrote: Granted, yes, some idiot speeding and cutting people off and riding their rear bumper does affect other people as well. I do not do that. If I approach you and you are lingering in the left lane, and it is obvious that you can easily move over, I will flash my headlights to let you know that I am there, in case you missed the giant white truck with obvious LED strobes mounted in my front grille and windshield, and remain a few car lengths back until you move over. After I pass you, I will move directly into the right lane as soon as I have reached a safe distance past you.
If you are ok with speeding, why not just pass on the right? You would end up in the right lane either way. Flashing your lights is inflammatory, even if appropriate. I can think of a few reasons why I'd be in the left lane rather than the right - usually the fault of poor highway design and the need to be in the left lane soon - and I have been burned because I've tried being a courteous driver. But this is different than lingering, which I generally do not do. When I do linger, it is because I am feeling obstinate or because I know that the left lane turns into the center lane a mile or two down the road.
dicion wrote: Also, Turn signals are not meant to be used when you're already commencing your turn or lane change. Turn signals mean "I would like to turn/change lanes, and will do so when It is safe and convenient to do so." Most people apparently do not know this, and assume it means 'I'm going, NOW'. Then they get mad when I do not slam on my brakes and let them in immediately as I am approaching & passing them at a considerably higher rate of speed.
Turn signals are not requests, it is an indicator of your intent. Although I agree it is used incorrectly, if at all.

Otherwise, as a general guideline, this is good and I try to follow it myself.

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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#54

Post by dicion »

Drewthetexan wrote:
If you are ok with speeding, why not just pass on the right? You would end up in the right lane either way. Flashing your lights is inflammatory, even if appropriate. I can think of a few reasons why I'd be in the left lane rather than the right - usually the fault of poor highway design and the need to be in the left lane soon - and I have been burned because I've tried being a courteous driver. But this is different than lingering, which I generally do not do. When I do linger, it is because I am feeling obstinate or because I know that the left lane turns into the center lane a mile or two down the road.
I will pass on the right if not left any other recourse, however, passing on the right sometimes results in you running into the rear end of another, slower moving car, a few hundred feet in front of the left lane driver, so you end up having to zig-zag. Right->left->back Right. Whereas if they just moved over, I would be past them in a few seconds. I don't do Roadblocks, or 1mph passes. If I want to pass you, I will be able to do it in 10 seconds or less.

It's hard to imagine, because it's not done here, but highways where everyone follows the 'move right when not passing' rule, are actually Very pleasant, and easy to drive on, with minimal lane changing required by all parties. You don't have to worry about people zooming up on your right, or people cutting you off, you know that all passing is done on the left, and no-one rides on your rear as you're passing, because they know you're going to move over as soon as you can after the pass. They don't feel any need to TELL you to move over, because it's second nature on these roads.

While I'm on the subject of roadblocks and passing :mrgreen: I know not everyone has cruise control, but at least try keep a constantish speed, especially if you just passed me doing 80, and then pull in front of me. If you slow down below what my cruise control is set at (generally 72 in 65's, 77 in 70's), I will move to the left lane, and pass you. This is nothing personal, it is just the speed at which I desire to keep driving. It's more just annoying then an actual problem, but I fear that some day someone's going to take it personal that I keep passing them, even though my speed doesn't change.

I once had one of these on a trip to Dallas... I think they passed me over 10 times, got in front of me, and then, over a period of 5-20 miles, slowed down a few miles per hour, so that I had to pass them. Wait 10-20 more miles, and they're passing me again. All the while, my cruise control has not moved :rolll
Turn signals are not requests, it is an indicator of your intent. Although I agree it is used incorrectly, if at all.
Otherwise, as a general guideline, this is good and I try to follow it myself.
I did not mean it as a request, I meant it as a polite statement. Similar to "I would like a double quarter pounder meal". Not Asking, but rather telling them what you desire to do, and that you will do so, when it is safe to do so.
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#55

Post by Drewthetexan »

I see what you mean on turn signals, right on.

I also completely understand what you mean about passing on the right. What I don't understand is when someone will ride someone's bumper in the left lane for miles without passing on the right. They just won't do it. I just don't waste the time or the effort. If someone is lingering in the left lane, more often than not they don't know any better or don't care, and either way they probably aren't going to move.

Heh, I set my cruise control at 7 over also. :cheers2:
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#56

Post by flb_78 »

I ride a motorcycle, traffic doesn't normally slow me down on the highway.
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#57

Post by austin-tatious »

dicion wrote: It's hard to imagine, because it's not done here, but highways where everyone follows the 'move right when not passing' rule, are actually Very pleasant, and easy to drive on, with minimal lane changing required by all parties. You don't have to worry about people zooming up on your right, or people cutting you off, you know that all passing is done on the left, and no-one rides on your rear as you're passing, because they know you're going to move over as soon as you can after the pass. They don't feel any need to TELL you to move over, because it's second nature on these roads.
:iagree: :iagree:
I have driven the autobahn in Germany twice now. What dicion describes is what they do there. Each time was over 1,000 miles for a one week's visit. Both times were marvelous experiences of courteous and efficient drivers.

But back to the topic! Instead of totally ignoring the road rager, What do you think of a smiling eye-contact and nod to them at first encounter, then back off while ignoring them from that point so they can go on their way?
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#58

Post by USA1 »

there are definitely some inconsiderate , aggressive , mean , stupid drivers that share our roads .

but there are also very courteous and friendly drivers too.
i try to fall into that category .

there a nice feeling to get a little wave after letting someone get in front of you ,
or allowing the other driver to go first .

Texans are some of the friendliest people you'll ever meet . :txflag:
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#59

Post by Purplehood »

austin-tatious wrote:
dicion wrote: It's hard to imagine, because it's not done here, but highways where everyone follows the 'move right when not passing' rule, are actually Very pleasant, and easy to drive on, with minimal lane changing required by all parties. You don't have to worry about people zooming up on your right, or people cutting you off, you know that all passing is done on the left, and no-one rides on your rear as you're passing, because they know you're going to move over as soon as you can after the pass. They don't feel any need to TELL you to move over, because it's second nature on these roads.
:iagree: :iagree:
I have driven the autobahn in Germany twice now. What dicion describes is what they do there. Each time was over 1,000 miles for a one week's visit. Both times were marvelous experiences of courteous and efficient drivers.

But back to the topic! Instead of totally ignoring the road rager, What do you think of a smiling eye-contact and nod to them at first encounter, then back off while ignoring them from that point so they can go on their way?
I watched an interesting program on traffic enforcement regarding the Autobahn. From what I gathered, there is a high-degree of training of drivers regarding the rules of the road. I got the impression that law enforcement is primarily concerned with catching tail-gaters (in the sense of keeping proper distance between automobiles at any speed and in every lane, not just the left) and erratic drivers.
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Re: Road rager on Beltway 8

#60

Post by austin-tatious »

Purplehood wrote:
austin-tatious wrote:
dicion wrote: It's hard to imagine, because it's not done here, but highways where everyone follows the 'move right when not passing' rule, are actually Very pleasant, and easy to drive on, with minimal lane changing required by all parties. You don't have to worry about people zooming up on your right, or people cutting you off, you know that all passing is done on the left, and no-one rides on your rear as you're passing, because they know you're going to move over as soon as you can after the pass. They don't feel any need to TELL you to move over, because it's second nature on these roads.
:iagree: :iagree:
I have driven the autobahn in Germany twice now. What dicion describes is what they do there. Each time was over 1,000 miles for a one week's visit. Both times were marvelous experiences of courteous and efficient drivers.

But back to the topic! Instead of totally ignoring the road rager, What do you think of a smiling eye-contact and nod to them at first encounter, then back off while ignoring them from that point so they can go on their way?
I watched an interesting program on traffic enforcement regarding the Autobahn. From what I gathered, there is a high-degree of training of drivers regarding the rules of the road. I got the impression that law enforcement is primarily concerned with catching tail-gaters (in the sense of keeping proper distance between automobiles at any speed and in every lane, not just the left) and erratic drivers.
We really really should require such training for Texas and the US, IMNSHO*.

*In my not so humble opinion.
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