Shot in Leg by Bathroom Stall Neighbor

[PetrucciFan]

TAMPA, Fla. — Authorities say a bullet from a gun that was accidentally dropped injured a Tampa woman sitting in a bathroom stall.

Police say the bullet hit 53-year-old Janifer Bliss in the lower left leg. She was taken to a hospital with minor injuries.

Bliss was sitting on the toilet in a hotel bathroom when a woman in the next stall accidentally let her handgun slip out of her waist holster. The weapon discharged when it hit the ground.

Police say the gun belonged to 56-year-old Debra Monce who has a concealed weapons permit.

The case has been referred to the State Attorney's Office to determine if any charges will be filed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531 ... latestnews

[mr.72]

wonder what type of gun this was that is not drop-safe. pre-recall LCP?

[The Annoyed Man]

Words fail me.

[joe817]

Thanks for posting P.F.! Very topical, as last month we had 2 threads going, and someone suggested this exact same scenario could happen when Mother Nature calls. Just goes to show you, to secure your weapon when she does!

[ELB]

I would wager that the pistol did not discharge when it was dropped, it discharged when the owner grabbed it in mid-fall and got her finger inside the trigger guard.

A couple years ago a policeman in San Antonio, attending a high school parents' meeting type event, fired two rounds in the bathroom when he dropped his pistol. Article didn't say, but again I can't see how you fire two rounds without grabbing the gun...

[dicion]

Thats one of the things you just have to mentally train yourself to do.

If a handgun falls, slips, whatever out of your hands/off your table/etc. DON'T REACH FOR IT, just LET IT FALL. 99% of them will not 'go off' when they hit the floor, or if they do, it will ONLY be if they hit the floor muzzle first (letting the physics of gravity & momentum do the work of slamming the firing pin into the primer), which means, the round will fire into the ground, which generally is the safest direction it can fire.

Reaching for it just introduces the possibility of you sticking your fingers into the trigger guard during your attempt to grab it, possibly pulling the trigger.
Then again, if it was a 1911 instead of some piece of BT, it would require both the trigger AND the grip safety to be pressed, in opposite directions of eachother, to fire, not to mention the thumb safety...

I'm not sayin'.. I'm just sayin.

[longtooth]

That is the kind of stuff we really dont need.

[dewayneward]

Yea, this type of stuff doesnt help the cause at all. Everytime I have to go to the can, I ALWAYS go to a stall. The first thing I do after locking the door is to take out my hi-point (IWB) and put it on the stall and then drop the drawers.

There was another one "somewhat recently" in the stall of a fast food restaurant where it shot through the toilet. I think it was in Florida as well.

[Liberty]

Then again, if it was a 1911 instead of some piece of BT, it would require both the trigger AND the grip safety to be pressed, in opposite directions of eachother, to fire, not to mention the thumb safety...

I'm not sayin'.. I'm just sayin.

This is not true, 1911s without a firing pin block can potentially go bang when dropped. This includes the original design 1911s, and There was a thread about a Rock Island Armory 1911 discharging in this forum

[nitrogen]

This is something I used to train people about when I taught classes. I'd be showing someone proper technique with a blue gun then "fumble" it while holding it with them. 99/100 times they'll try and grab it in the air.

"you just shot your leg off."

it works quite well, and something more people need to learn the easy way.

[kirock7]

I'd really like to know the type, model and caliber the the gun was.
Really.

[Liberty]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafe ... 017113.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The small-caliber gun fired when it hit the floor, and the shot went through Bliss' lower left thigh. She was taken to Tampa General Hospital with minor injuries, according to a release from Tampa police.

It apparently wasn't a .45 1911.

[dicion]

Then again, if it was a 1911 instead of some piece of BT, it would require both the trigger AND the grip safety to be pressed, in opposite directions of eachother, to fire, not to mention the thumb safety...

I'm not sayin'.. I'm just sayin.

This is not true, 1911s without a firing pin block can potentially go bang when dropped. This includes the original design 1911s, and There was a thread about a Rock Island Armory 1911 discharging in this forum

This is true, which is why I added this:

...or if they do, it will ONLY be if they hit the floor muzzle first (letting the physics of gravity & momentum do the work of slamming the firing pin into the primer), which means, the round will fire into the ground, which generally is the safest direction it can fire.

However, the lowest distance testing that I saw that was done (which I can't seem to find right now), that supposedly caused it to discharge, showed that the gun had to be dropped, muzzle first, from like 15 feet in order for the pin to overcome the firing pin spring, and hit the primer hard enough to cause it to go off.
I Can't think of any way possible for a 1911 to accidentally fall 15 feet in a bathroom stall.

References:
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/iner ... charge.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://yarchive.net/gun/pistol/1911_ine ... harge.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://books.google.com/books?id=8bKqoP ... t&resnum=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's also many more out there that I could not find real quickly.

Most of these tests show that they were not able to actually get it to go off. I personally think that if 1911's did discharge from a short distance drop like this, then they were not maintained properly, or the firing pin spring was incorrect for the purpose. Also, The Firing Pin spring is supposed to be replaced every 3000 rounds or so. If it is not replaced on scheduele, then it could weaken and make it easier for the firing pin to strike the primer in a drop.

[KD5NRH]

However, the lowest distance testing that I saw that was done (which I can't seem to find right now), that supposedly caused it to discharge, showed that the gun had to be dropped, muzzle first, from like 15 feet in order for the pin to overcome the firing pin spring, and hit the primer hard enough to cause it to go off.
I Can't think of any way possible for a 1911 to accidentally fall 15 feet in a bathroom stall.

IIRC, one test did get a 1911 with a worn firing pin spring and heavy pin to go off in a 8-foot fall. Still not likely in the bathroom, and cheaply avoidable with a Wolff extra-power spring.

[tfrazier]

A one in a million occurrence, but boy is it bad publicity for CHL.

Aside from the obvious mistake and fault of the holder, why is it that public bathroom stalls always have a foot or so of open space at the bottom? Is it necessary for sanitation purposes just to make it simpler to run a mop around the floor?

Seems like just running those dividers all the way to the floor would solve multiple problems (Larry Craig) along with giving folks additional privacy and some extra cover in the rare event an idiot drops a gun in the next stall.