Negative Trooper Encounter

[74novaman]

So your computers are not connected to any other databases or the internet? You don't coordinate any information in any way with the FBI, etc?

Just playing devil's advocate here. Heck, there are programs which can record every keystroke made on a computer. There could be hidden programs running recording numbers even if you aren't actively doing it yourself.

Not a tin foil hat wearer, or a crazy conspiracy nut, just saying that in this day and age, with all the technology out there, we have a lot to be concerned about when it comes to who's got the serial numbers and types of guns we have on record. I view it a lot like a social security number. I'm not a big fan of giving it out when I don't know where its going.


1% of CHL stops or 1% of total stops?

[kw5kw]

So your computers are not connected to any other databases or the internet? You don't coordinate any information in any way with the FBI, etc?

Just playing devil's advocate here. Heck, there are programs which can record every keystroke made on a computer. There could be hidden programs running recording numbers even if you aren't actively doing it yourself.

Not a tin foil hat wearer, or a crazy conspiracy nut, just saying that in this day and age, with all the technology out there, we have a lot to be concerned about when it comes to who's got the serial numbers and types of guns we have on record. I view it a lot like a social security number. I'm not a big fan of giving it out when I don't know where its going.


1% of CHL stops or 1% of total stops?

The computers create a log, a log that is kept for court purposes for a period of time and then destroyed.

We have no such keystroke programs, that could cause someone to get CCH info and that is a really big NO-NO! More so than even SSN's in fact. CCH is the most valued of all information. There are times that we can't give the Trooper's the CCH info because of rules and regulations.

and I'd say it's <1% of CHL stops. Heck, today alone I probably had at least 15 CHL stops ran through my terminal with not one serial number requested.

[74novaman]

and I'd say it's <1% of CHL stops. Heck, today alone I probably had at least 15 CCL stops ran through my terminal with not one serial number requested.

Good to know. Thanks.

[AEA]

Heck, today alone I probably had at least 15 CHL stops ran through my terminal with not one serial number requested.

Are you a DPS LEO or a Local Fort Worth LEO?

This thread is about the possibility of DPS Troopers being directed recently to "run" weapon serial numbers when they find them during traffic stops. This is something they never did in the past and therefore suspect to be a creation of a serial number database by the TXDPS for unknown purpose.

[TexasVet]

Our guy lost his money and his weapons, but learned a lesson... always check your weapon to see if they were stolen, no matter who you purchase them from for they might have inadvertently purchased a "hot" item and never knew it themselves.

How do us citizens check if a weapon is stolen at a gunshow or pawn shop or if we get it from a friend, and do it at the time of purchase so we know we wont get burned ?

[kw5kw]

Heck, today alone I probably had at least 15 CHL stops ran through my terminal with not one serial number requested.

Are you a DPS LEO or a Local Fort Worth LEO?

This thread is about the possibility of DPS Troopers being directed recently to "run" weapon serial numbers when they find them during traffic stops. This is something they never did in the past and therefore suspect to be a creation of a serial number database by the TXDPS for unknown purpose.

I'm not LEO, I'm a Police Communications Operator (PCO) for the Texas Dept of Public Safety (DPS), Highway Patrol Division (HP), Bureau of Law Enforcement Communications and Technology (BLECT); some would mistakenly identify my job as "dispatcher."

I know what the thread implies; it's not true. This myth has been 'busted.'

[kw5kw]

Our guy lost his money and his weapons, but learned a lesson... always check your weapon to see if they were stolen, no matter who you purchase them from for they might have inadvertently purchased a "hot" item and never knew it themselves.

How do us citizens check if a weapon is stolen at a gunshow or pawn shop or if we get it from a friend, and do it at the time of purchase so we know we wont get burned ?

take the number to the PD or SO and have them run it for you before you purchase. There should be PD on hand at a gun show, have him radio it in, it takes less than 5 minutes, usually done in under 2 depending on work load. I myself just purchased a S&W .357 686 from a pawn shop, but before I purchased it I wrote down the serial number and left the store. I saw a PD unit setting on the side of the road--drove up to him introduced myself and told him what I wanted. He picked up his mike and radioed the number in and got a negative hit on it in less than 5 minutes. I went right back to the pawn shop and completed the purchase.

[AEA]

I'm not LEO, I'm a Police Communications Operator (PCO) for the Texas Dept of Public Safety (DPS), Highway Patrol Division (HP), Bureau of Law Enforcement Communications and Technology (BLECT); some would mistakenly identify my job as "dispatcher." I know what the thread implies; it's not true. This myth has been 'busted.'

Thanks for your input and responses to direct questions. I appreciate your information and submit that I was obviously mistaken in my assumption of a covert database creation of Border States gun information, specifically by the TXDPS Troopers.

It makes me feel a lot better knowing that this has not been a directive and not something that is normally done to active CHL holders.

[KD5NRH]

I am in the THP's BLECT (Bureau of Law Enforcement and Communications Technology). So, I'm one of the guys setting in front of the computer; and, yes I can say that there IS NO data base being created!

So you're saying queries aren't logged at all? If they are, then a databse of the information is just a perl script away.

[KD5NRH]

CCH is the most valued of all information. There are times that we can't give the Trooper's the CCH info because of rules and regulations.

Then why isn't there a 10-code for it? DPS won't say phone call or drunk because those have 10-codes, but they're perfectly happy to broadcast CHL status in plain English for anybody with a $50 scanner.

I suspect if I bothered to keep a pad and pen by the scanner, I could have a list of more than half this county's CHLs within a year or two.

[stevie_d_64]

GC 9411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officers official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual.

OK, how on earth would this officer "reasonably believe" that it was necessary to disarm this license holder?

Better yet, why is there a need to "run" a serial number???

I too am not buying the "check to see if it is stolen" line...

Correct me if I am wrong, but there are -27 and -28 checks for DL and vehicle reg. databases...I have never heard of a check of any available database for a firearms serial number check...I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, and if I am not, these very few, and far between disarming cases are a violation of your 4th Amendment rights, and they need to be nipped in the bud, but quick...

Just my opinion...

And since 1996, I have been pulled over more times than I care to admit...And whether I got a citation or not is a moot point...I have never been disarmed or asked beyond whether I had the weapon on me or with me...

Do I believe I should be disarmed??? My philosophy is to not give the officer or deputy an excuse to do so with anything I do or say...If they want it, they will get it of course, per the law...If they state they are going to run a check on it, I'll let them do it, but when all is said and done, there will be something said to their bosses, and I will tell them that if there is a policy, I will tell them at that time they are wrong, and that any report containing my personal information (serial number), I will make the effort (legally) to get that specific information removed (and confirmed removed) from their records...

Guys...We have got to start playing the game, and stop these trends from becoming the "norm"...I am not and will never be against law enforcement, but if policies like this start growing, then we are going to start losing a lot more than our privacy...

But again, this is just my opinion...

[joe817]

Russ, thanks so much for a very interesting insight into the operations and how things work. I found your posts fascinating.

Sometimes you in law enforcement don't get the thanks that we all owe you. I for one says " THANKS!

And hi! I'm Joe - AA5LD. Catchy call sign. I like it!

[boomerang]

I know what the thread implies; it's not true. This myth has been 'busted.'

So there is no policy of running SN on guns? The trooper lied to the guy to try to pressure him to allow a search with no probable cause?

[nitrogen]

Heck, today alone I probably had at least 15 CHL stops ran through my terminal with not one serial number requested.

Are you a DPS LEO or a Local Fort Worth LEO?

This thread is about the possibility of DPS Troopers being directed recently to "run" weapon serial numbers when they find them during traffic stops. This is something they never did in the past and therefore suspect to be a creation of a serial number database by the TXDPS for unknown purpose.

I got stopped by a DPS trooper on Saturday for no front plate, and going 6 over the limit. My wife has my radar detector, and I am really too used to driving in heavy traffic.

I was not required to surrender my weapon for a serial number inspection, or for "officer safety", and I got a warning. I probably should have gotten a ticket, but was lucky.

I really wonder whats going on here.

[srothstein]

To give some further LEO insight into this thread, I would point out a few minor things. I have no idea why the officer first stopped the truck for real. He may have been looking for a similar truck as posited, or he may have just madea mistake with his radar unit. He may even have just been fishing. But he did not know until the truck was stopped that the driver had a CHL. Running the tag gives the owner of the truck and not the driver. A few municipalities (San Antonio I know of) have a program which will automatically check the tag with the municipal court database also, givign all of the drivers who have been ticketed in the truck> DPS does not normally have this capability.

I feel confident that he did not stop the truck based on the tag returning a CHL for a much more prosaic reason. He probably could not read the tag until he was already behind the truck stopping it. Stand by the highway sometime and try to read the license plate of a car going by you, especially in traffic, at 72 mph. It is not easy.

As for running the serial number to create a database, it is not going to happen soon. The gun query just gets the serial number of the gun and can return several different guns (based on make and caliber, there can be more than one with the same serial number). It does not get the name of the person holding the gun when it was run. Some of this might be able to be captured by also tying the gun query to the tag or dl queries, but what happens when more than one person in the car gets run? And if there is no hits on the query, there is no way to get the make and model of the gun. So, this is not likely to happen anytime in the near future. It would take too much reprogramming of the computers and there is no way that could be kept secret.

Finally, anytime an officer tells you that there is a policy of something, you can check it. Police department policies are public information. All you need to do is send an open records request to the agency for a copy of all policies or memos concerning that subject. I would just ask for copies of all policies dealing with traffic stops or dealing with CHL's. I would also ask for any training records on these subjects. I would almost be willing to bet there is no agency policy asking officers to run pistol serial numbers. There may be agency policies on disarming CHL's though.