Negative Trooper Encounter

[Rocket_Cowboy]

I don't have any problem being disarmed as necessary by a LEO. I do have a big problem "running" or otherwise recording the serial number of my weapon.

This.

If the officer had said nothing other than to ask to disarm during the stop, that would be one thing. *IF* he thought you were driving aggressively, I can understand the temporary disarm. The problem isn't that the OP was disarmed, but that they were running serial numbers, IMO. In 9 years carrying with a CHL, I've never been asked to disarm, so this definitely smells of a pretty drastic policy change.

[4t5]

Y'all are missing the point. Of course, a cop can pull anyone over for no reason, I am not disputing that. It seems to me that if the officer is just fishing, and does not actually have a reasonable belief that it is necessary to disarm a licensee, he is breaking the law. I can see some valid reasons to disarm, like a lone cop with no backup. Or if the vehicle matched the description of an evil-doer, but then there would be a full, guns-drawn stop. Neither of these was the case.

GC 9411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officers official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual.

[Fangs]

Note to self, if ever a LEO attempts to disarm me, ask, "Sir, do you reasonably believe it is necessary for the protection of the
me, you, or another individual?"

And if he says "yes", ask why.

Then I'd comply, but I would also have some good video evidence for my complaint / day in court.

[bdickens]

I don't know why our freedom platform size seems to be getting smaller.

You really want to know? This is why:

To ice the cake, I wanted to file a written complaint concerning my experience. After reading the Departments rules and regs regarding written complaints (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_s ... gation.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), I decided not to. It appears to me that filing a written complaint could invite even more harassment and could even invite litigation from the state.

[emphasis mine]

When law-abiding citizens - I mean subjects - believe that it is just not worth it to stand up and fight for their God-given Constitutional rights, it just emboldens the govenrment to keep encroaching further and further.

No LEO is going to search my vehicle (or house) without a warrant. And no LEO is going to abuse his power on me without me filing a formal complaint and probably a lawsuit as well.

[dicion]

[Right2Carry]

I give up.........
No one seems interested in protecting their privacy and rights anymore.......

Even if there is a stolen gun database available to the DPS Trooper at 2am in the morning. What is the purpose of running a Law Abiding Citizen's (CHL) weapon for the possibility that it is stolen?

First....it will not be stolen.
Second.....the LEO is "FISHING" and if he is not fishing then he is supplying serial numbers to a database that is being built because of people that are not interested in standing up for their rights.

I agree with you 100%. There was no need to run the gun to see if it had been stolen. That was the excuse given so they could proceed with their hidden agenda.

[kw5kw]

... if the officer was Mic'd, and there was video from their cruiser, perhaps it would show your case better. And only filing a complaint will guarantee that data gets saved.

Every DPS patrol vehicle is equipped with video and each and every stop is recorded. On DVD -R or +R, depending on the equipment in the vehicle, not on -RW or +RW. None are destroyed/erased.

[kw5kw]

What is this bull about running the number of your weapon? This is registration! They have no database.....they are creating one!......

If I am stopped, they will not get the serial number of my weapon without a fight!

Not true, it's a simple check in the NCIC/TCIC database to see if the weapon is stolen.
Not to say you stole a weapon yourself; only that it is possible to obtain a 'stolen' weapon from a friend of a friend of a friend who might have gotten it from a pawn shop, yada, yada, yada... You get my drift.

[kw5kw]

Of course I mean a "Fight" after the fact. Not on the street, but in the courts.

But why should I even have to fight? What am I paying TSRA and NRA for? They should be jumping on this like white on rice! This is obviously a new attempt to create a database of guns and owners of border states to Mexico. Why am I the only one to see this for what it is? REGISTRATION

Because that's not what it is. No database is being created, of this I can assure you.

[kw5kw]

Thanks but that is already covered here:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=25751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What we are talking about in this thread is TXDPS "running" serial numbers of guns found while on traffic stops. They are creating a database of owners & serial numbers as far as I am concerned. Similar to what ATF is doing but a little bit different in that even if you are a legal CHL holder they are apparently getting the serial number of your weapon during the stop.

This is something new for them and needs to be investigated. Who authorized this change in policy? What is the purpose other than to create a database of weapons owned by individuals in the State of Texas?

The usual line (of other States that have always done this) is: "we need to check if it is stolen".........That does not cut it with me. There is no National Stolen Gun Database and not even a Statewide Stolen Gun Database. So, what Database do you think they are "checking" against? NONE is the answer, they are in the process of creating one. And it is not one of stolen guns! It is for future use to STEAL YOUR GUN!

We run it as a "QG" (Query Gun) and there most certainally a database of stolen weapons, just as there is a database of stolen vehicles, boats, ATV's, televisions, computers and kitchen blenders. And, yes, it's a NCIC/TCIC databse that's available 24/7.
And NO, it's not to create any type of database!

[nitrogen]

[quote="mrvmax"
Tell me what can be done? In a situation like this it is the troopers word versus the person pulled over. There is no way the trooper will be seen as wrong so tell me what can be done? Go ahead and go to court with no proof and claim that the trooper pulled over the wrong person and see what happens.[/quote]

The deck is stacked against you, so why even try?

If more people thought like this, we'd still be an English colony, as would India.

[kw5kw]

Suppose the following:

Broadcast from Bureau of Law Enforcement Communications and Technology:

Attention all units; Attempt to Locate a pickup, unknown make/model, last seen North bound on Hwy 6 near Hwy 288. Vehicle was involved in armed robbery at local Stop&Rob. Occupied one time male subject. Subject armed and dangerous, use caution.

Next thing you know you're being stopped because you do indeed match the description of above broadcast. Trooper has no way to know exactly who/what you are until he's made contact and yes they have to be cautious, they remember the the ones who are killed because they are/were careless and let their guard down. They never know who's behind the wheel or what their intentions are. Just a couple of weeks ago a couple of troopers from our office drove all the way to Pennsylvania to pay respects to a state trooper that was killed in just such an incident.

Please cut them some slack, they have the most dangerous job, they do have to stop people with guns who want to shoot cops as well as people who are law-abiding citizens.

off soapbox

[74novaman]

I don't think anyone here is in the habit of demeaning police officers or the job they do.

But lets look at it another way. You, as a cop, are just told to check for stolen guns routinely when you stop a CHL. You report serial numbers of guns in these stops to check they're not stolen.

Can you, as the cop on the street, not sitting in front of the computer, say with 100% certainty a database is not being created by your reports?

That is what worries us.

[kw5kw]

I don't think anyone here is in the habit of demeaning police officers or the job they do.

But lets look at it another way. You, as a cop, are just told to check for stolen guns routinely when you stop a CHL. You report serial numbers of guns in these stops to check they're not stolen.

Can you, as the cop on the street, not sitting in front of the computer, say with 100% certainty a database is not being created by your reports?

That is what worries us.

I am in the THP's BLECT (Bureau of Law Enforcement and Communications Technology). So, I'm one of the guys setting in front of the computer; and, yes I can say that there IS NO data base being created!

[kw5kw]

Of all of the stops that involve CHL's, and because CHL holders are becoming more numerous, more stops are being made; without actually putting tic marks to track them, I'd say less than 1% of the stops result in a QG being ran. (Check serial number for stolen.) And I know, because it is a real "pain" to run them.

While the Trooper gives out the serial number as well as the caliber and make/model of the weapon, we only run the serial number, and then when the return comes back (hopefully it says: "No record") sometimes you have to actually search through several listings to see if it's the make/model caliber that you are looking for. Actually, we had one guy--not a CHL'er-- who's weapons came back stolen, he had about 8 or 10 of them. He'd got them at a gun show from another dealer. The guns were impounded, the guy released, and turned over to the Criminal Law Enforcement Bureau for further investigation.

So, yes, the guy was an honest guy who had obtained them legally; but, and the really big but, they were actually, really, indeed stolen years ago way out of state.

Nobody ever bothered to check them out before they were purchased.

Our guy lost his money and his weapons, but learned a lesson... always check your weapon to see if they were stolen, no matter who you purchase them from for they might have inadvertently purchased a "hot" item and never knew it themselves.