Negative Trooper Encounter

[bryang]

I just received this email from TSRA concerning this problem

June 22, 2009 - FFLs and purchasers of "certain types" of firearms in Texas are being scrutinized by BATF due to the gun smuggling into Mexico.

In Border States, BATFE Asks: "May We See Your Guns?"

Friday, June 19, 2009

NRA-ILA has recently received several calls from NRA members in border states who have been visited or called by agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. In some cases, agents have asked to enter these people's homes, and requested serial numbers of all firearms the members possess.

In each case, the agents were making inquiries based on the number of firearms these NRA members had recently bought, and in some cases the agents said they were asking because the members had bought types of guns that are frequently recovered in Mexico.

This kind of questioning may or may not be part of a legitimate criminal investigation. For example, when BATFE traces a gun seized after use in a crime, manufacturers' and dealers' records will normally lead to the first retail buyer of that gun, and investigators will have to interview the buyer to find out how the gun ended up in criminal hands. But in other cases, the questioning may simply be based on information in dealers' records, with agents trying to "profile" potentially suspicious purchases.

On the other hand, some of the agents have used heavy-handed tactics. One reportedly demanded that a gun owner return home early from a business trip, while another threatened to "report" an NRA member as "refusing to cooperate." That kind of behavior is outrageous and unprofessional.

Whether agents act appropriately or not, concerned gun owners should remember that all constitutional protections apply. Answering questions in this type of investigation is generally an individual choice. Most importantly, there are only a few relatively rare exceptions to the general Fourth Amendment requirement that law enforcement officials need a warrant to enter a home without the residents' consent. There is nothing wrong with politely, but firmly, asserting your rights.

If BATFE contacts you and you have any question about how to respond, you may want to consult a local attorney. NRA members may also call NRA-ILA's Office of Legislative Counsel at (703) 267-1161 for further information. Whether contacting a local attorney or NRA, be sure to provide as many details as possible, including the date, time, and location, agent's name, and specific questions asked.

Copyright 2009, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.

Sincerely,

Alice Tripp
Texas State Rifle Association
Legislative Director

-geo

[AEA]

Thanks but that is already covered here:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=25751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What we are talking about in this thread is TXDPS "running" serial numbers of guns found while on traffic stops. They are creating a database of owners & serial numbers as far as I am concerned. Similar to what ATF is doing but a little bit different in that even if you are a legal CHL holder they are apparently getting the serial number of your weapon during the stop.

This is something new for them and needs to be investigated. Who authorized this change in policy? What is the purpose other than to create a database of weapons owned by individuals in the State of Texas?

The usual line (of other States that have always done this) is: "we need to check if it is stolen".........That does not cut it with me. There is no National Stolen Gun Database and not even a Statewide Stolen Gun Database. So, what Database do you think they are "checking" against? NONE is the answer, they are in the process of creating one. And it is not one of stolen guns! It is for future use to STEAL YOUR GUN!

[bryang]

You are right...I apologize and agree with what you are saying.

Sorry,
-geo

[hookem69]

I don’t think it was such a bad encounter. Sure the LEO made a mistake with the ID of your auto. It is only human to make a mistake. The gun and all ID were returned and only a warning was issued. Not that bad IMHO.

With all due respect, I was issued a "warning" without breaking ANY laws. The point being that they had no business pulling me over. My vehicle was identifiable with a personalized license plate. I respectfully disagree with your take. Thanks for the input though.

[mrvmax]

I don’t think it was such a bad encounter. Sure the LEO made a mistake with the ID of your auto. It is only human to make a mistake. The gun and all ID were returned and only a warning was issued. Not that bad IMHO.

With all due respect, I was issued a "warning" without breaking ANY laws. The point being that they had no business pulling me over. My vehicle was identifiable with a personalized license plate. I respectfully disagree with your take. Thanks for the input though.

All I can say is that this is a battle you will never win so let it go and get on with your life. You will never prove that you did nothing warranting being pulled over. We will always run across injustices and many times there is nothing we can do about it. I was pulled over by DPS for a license plate light that was out. In reality that was just a reason to pull me over. The Trooper was nice and did what he need to do and let me go with a warning. He did not ask to see my gun and did not run the serial number, in fact he acted like he could care less that I had it next to me.
Another time a motorcycle cop working funeral duty proceeded to pitch a fit and yell at me because he felt I was too close to the intersection where the funeral was passing by (I was at the light before they reached me, I was behind the line right where I was supposed to be). After yelling at me to move backwards he spent the entire time he was there making gestures at me with his hands, shaking his head and acting like he was somebody. I wanted to get out of my car and tell him how he was an idiot and so forth but I held back. I knew he could have made my day much worse so I just let it go. As he drove off I was wishing he would dump that Goldwing in the ditch for being a jerk. At least I know he was freezing his butt off while he sped off since it was winter and a cloudy, windy and cold day. Anyway, there was nothing I could do about it that would give any satisfaction so i forgot about it and got on with my life. I really do not see any major injustice done to you except for the running of the serial number.

[74novaman]

Thanks but that is already covered here:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=25751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What we are talking about in this thread is TXDPS "running" serial numbers of guns found while on traffic stops. They are creating a database of owners & serial numbers as far as I am concerned. Similar to what ATF is doing but a little bit different in that even if you are a legal CHL holder they are apparently getting the serial number of your weapon during the stop.

This is something new for them and needs to be investigated. Who authorized this change in policy? What is the purpose other than to create a database of weapons owned by individuals in the State of Texas?

The usual line (of other States that have always done this) is: "we need to check if it is stolen".........That does not cut it with me. There is no National Stolen Gun Database and not even a Statewide Stolen Gun Database. So, what Database do you think they are "checking" against? NONE is the answer, they are in the process of creating one. And it is not one of stolen guns! It is for future use to STEAL YOUR GUN!

This is definitely something we need to discuss more.

[nitrogen]

All I can say is that this is a battle you will never win so let it go and get on with your life.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
--Edmund Burke

[4t5]

GC 9411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officers official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual.

OK, how on earth would this officer "reasonably believe" that it was necessary to disarm this license holder?

[AEA]

I don't have any problem being disarmed as necessary by a LEO. I do have a big problem "running" or otherwise recording the serial number of my weapon.

[KRM45]

Thanks but that is already covered here:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 23&t=25751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What we are talking about in this thread is TXDPS "running" serial numbers of guns found while on traffic stops. They are creating a database of owners & serial numbers as far as I am concerned. Similar to what ATF is doing but a little bit different in that even if you are a legal CHL holder they are apparently getting the serial number of your weapon during the stop.

This is something new for them and needs to be investigated. Who authorized this change in policy? What is the purpose other than to create a database of weapons owned by individuals in the State of Texas?

The usual line (of other States that have always done this) is: "we need to check if it is stolen".........That does not cut it with me. There is no National Stolen Gun Database and not even a Statewide Stolen Gun Database. So, what Database do you think they are "checking" against? NONE is the answer, they are in the process of creating one. And it is not one of stolen guns! It is for future use to STEAL YOUR GUN!

There most certainly is a database of stolen guns, as well as boats, cars, securities, etc. TCIC (Texas Crime Information Center) maintains a list of stolen firearms by make, serial number and caliber. In theory it is possible for someone to compile a list of who was in posession of what weapon, and when based on these inquiries, but it is highly unlikely.

As far as the idea of running every law abiding citizens gun, I think that is overkill. Does the action of this trooper warrant a complaint to DPS? I don't think so. I'm sure he observed some sort of traffic code violation. There are so many out there.

[AEA]

I give up.........
No one seems interested in protecting their privacy and rights anymore.......

Even if there is a stolen gun database available to the DPS Trooper at 2am in the morning. What is the purpose of running a Law Abiding Citizen's (CHL) weapon for the possibility that it is stolen?

First....it will not be stolen.
Second.....the LEO is "FISHING" and if he is not fishing then he is supplying serial numbers to a database that is being built because of people that are not interested in standing up for their rights.

[Beiruty]

Be glad you are living in Texas, not in Canada or UK. That being said, as a Canadian, I had lived and hated the Gun Registration which so much restrictive and difficult to follow that many Canadians will give up on owning restricted firearms (pistol for sole purpose of competition).

One has to dwell on the positive side of controlling measure to deny firearms to felons. I found it so ridiculously so easy for gangster to carry and get access to firearms. Most firearms acquired by felons is via either stolen firearms, face to face with no record, or a straw purchase.

Now, if an LEO wanted to run the serial number of my sidearm, I will comply since I have nothing to worry about. I acquired my firearms via FFL and have peace of mind that I did not buy a pistol that was part of murder or violent act.

We have a proverb that states, 3 you can't rent out or loan : wife, your car, and your sidearm.

[AEA]

Now, if an LEO wanted to run the serial number of my sidearm, I will comply since I have nothing to worry about. I acquired my firearms via FFL and have peace of mind that I did not buy a pistol that was part of murder or violent act.

Well, .......you say you would have nothing to worry about.......
What about when they come to your residence to confiscate your weapon that they know that you have? Don't think it will come to that? Why are they taking the numbers then?

And, BTW, I did live in St. John's, Newfoundland for 13 years, so I know something about Canada as well......
I purchased a legal AK47 there from a gun shop and a few years later I was forced to turn it into the local police for destruction. This is when they outlawed them and forced a Nationwide registration (that has never completed and cost Millions of dollars).

[Beiruty]

I lived 26 yrs in Lebanon. Where raids to confiscate your guns (stealing I would state) is the order-de-jour

Nothing is garantted in life. Learn to secure your "toys". And the moment the congress would outlaw guns for civilians LEOs need no serials to track you down. They will come and do search with search warrant on a roll basis. House by house, if caught with non-registered firearm, the penaity is severe. 10 yr auto sentence. I hate Canadian Gun Control laws. One of the reasons I am now in TX.

[mrvmax]

All I can say is that this is a battle you will never win so let it go and get on with your life.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
--Edmund Burke

Tell me what can be done? In a situation like this it is the troopers word versus the person pulled over. There is no way the trooper will be seen as wrong so tell me what can be done? Go ahead and go to court with no proof and claim that the trooper pulled over the wrong person and see what happens. Nothing short of a mutli angle video documentary that would have filmed the entire incident would change the view of the trooper versus the citizen. Your quote makes no sense, there was no evil committed here.
For all you naysayers think of this, sometimes we need to accept a little injustice and get on with your life. You need to pick your battles and forget the ones that cannot be won and focus on the ones that can. A documentary of Navy S.E.A.L. training showed an inspection of their dorm. After the recruits got their rooms spit shine clean the instructors chose a room at random and threw sand all over the room and trashed it. The instructor said he wanted to see how they handled injustice. The recruits just had to accept the injustice, correct it and get on with their life. I think the same lesson applies here.