Negative Trooper Encounter

[hookem69]

I have never had a bad experience with a LEO before or since I've had my CHL, until this past Saturday. I was driving N on Hwy 6 S near 288 on 6/20/09 at @ 11:30 AM. I was driving with the flow, within a pack of vehicles, and glanced in my rear view to see a DPS vehicle weaving through the pack, ulimately coming up to the rear of my truck and lighting up. Since I wasn't breaking any laws,I assumed he needed me to get out of his way, so I signaled and moved from the center lane to the right lane. The DPS unit followed, so I pulled over to the shoulder and stopped. I shut off my engine, rolled down the driver side window and put both hands on top of my steering wheel. The trooper exited his vehicle and slowly walked over to the passenger side of my truck. With his right hand at his side, he eased up to the passenger side window and tapped on the glass with his left hand. I rolled down the window. He asked for my license and proof of insurance. He also asked where I was coming from and what I was doing I was doing at that location. I handed him my DL, CHL and POI. He said I was "traveling 72 mph and salmmed on my brakes in the middle of Hwy 6". I knew the trooper was dead wrong on both accusations and felt my face get flush. I told him that I would not argue his accusation but repectfully disagreed. He asked If I had a weapon in the vehicle. I told him I did and where it was. He told me that I was to have told him that I had a weapon and it's location before I handed him my information. In my mind, red flags were waving and alarms were going off. This was getting funky all several different levels. The trooper said he was going to issue me a warning and for me to stay in my vehicle. As I sat there, a very young trooper got out of the passenger side of the cruiser, walked up to the passenger window of my truck and asked where my weapon was and if it was the only weapon in my vehicle. I told him where my weapon was and that I had no others in the vehicle. He said it was "policy" to run a check on my weapon and asked that I slowly hand it to him. I surrendered my weapon and the young trooper took it back to the cruiser. After about 5 minutes, the 1st trooper came back to the passenger side window, handed back my weapon, licenses and a written warning.

I'm very grateful for the patience that generally comes with age. I was steamed, but kept my mouth shut. I knew that I had been unfairly pulled over and checked. I've had my CHL for over 8 years now. I've had to show my information to LEO's maybe 3 times in those 8 + years. I never felt like I was treated unfairly until my experience on Saturday. Why was I stopped? I suspect that from what ever vantage point this DPS was watching from that my truck tag was run and I was pulled over specifically to check my weapon, If indeed I was carrying one. This really chaps my behind. It didn't feel like borderline harassment, it felt like 100% harassment. My criminal background has been checked AND scrutinized 3 times by the TDPS since first applying for my CHL. If troopers are spending taxpayer dollars re-checking what has already been checked, then I have a problem with that.

To ice the cake, I wanted to file a written complaint concerning my experience. After reading the Departments rules and regs regarding written complaints (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_s ... gation.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), I decided not to. It appears to me that filing a written complaint could invite even more harassment and could even invite litigation from the state. I don't know why our freedom platform size seems to be getting smaller. I do know that the line drawn between government and citizens continues to get deeper and wider. This saddens me.

Thanks for this forum and a chance to share my experience. Thanks also for taking time to read and post any feedback.

[Mithras61]

There are many trucks in the Houston area. Many of them look similar, and many of them are out & about on Saturdays. Is it possible that rather than being an attempt to harass you this was a case of mistaken identity? Is your vehicle so unique that it could not have been mistaken for one which they were searching, with no useful description of the driver, so that they would want to check you out?

Not trying to excuse the action, just trying to offer a possible alternative interpretation of the event.

As to the noise about the order of informing vs. presenting your CHL, the law is silent about verbally informing the officer. You presented the required documentation and answered their questions regarding the firearm. Anything else they had to say on that subject is just so much noise. If there was a violation, they would have likely written some sort of ticket or warning on that as well. The fact that you presented your CHL should have been more than ample indication that you were armed (since you aren't required to present it if you aren't carrying).

Regarding the running of tags, it seems unlikely that they would have pulled you over simply to check your weapon. I seem to recall that several LEOs here have stated that the vehicle registration info doesn't cross-link to the same DPS database that contains TDL data nor to CHL data. As I understand it, they would have had to run the tags, get the owner's name, run a query for warrants, etc. for the owner's name, gotten the TDL and then run a separate check for the CHL from the TDL info. Not impossible, but it seems unlikely (LEOs, if I'm mistaken, please correct me on this).

At least they only issued a warning. Even though they ran your firearm's SN, they didn't do much more than give you some static about it. Sorry for your agravation. Hopefully any future encounters will be happier.

[CodeJockey]

...Why was I stopped? I suspect that from what ever vantage point this DPS was watching from that my truck tag was run and I was pulled over specifically to check my weapon, If indeed I was carrying one...

Well, I can say for a fact that they do not know your CHL status based on your tags or license plates. This comes up when they run your driver's license.

[dicion]

This is the reason I'm weighing the costs of fitting my vehicles with cameras and audio recording equipment.

As it is, if I ever get pulled over, The first thing I will do is hit 'record' on my phone, and set it on the dashboard in front of me.
Chances are, I won't need the recording, but in the chance I do, I'll have it.

Right now, it's your word vs the two of them on this issue. With audio or video, now you have a better case. Especially if the video shows you were not going anywhere near 72mph.

I figure If i installed a system that basically captures the driver's seat, with a mostly clear view of the speedometer would be ideal. You could do it with 1 or 2 small bullet cameras, and all you would need is like, 12 hours of storage. If something happens that you need the video, you'll pretty much know immediately.


If you filed a complaint, if the officer was Mic'd, and there was video from their cruiser, perhaps it would show your case better. And only filing a complaint will guarantee that data gets saved.

[Richmond Kevin]

On April 29th I was stopped for doing 68 mph in a 60 mph zone on Hwy. 59 at the south end of the Fort Bend County by a Fort Bend County Sherriff. I followed the proper rules in providing my licenses, etc. to the officer. The officer asked if I had a weapon with me, I told him yes and pointed to where I store it while driving. He asked me to remove my hand from the area where my weapon was stored and told me that he needed enter my vehicle, access the handgun himself and radio in the serial number of my gun to see if it was stolen. I told the officer that I am a law abiding citizen and would not carry a stolen weapon. I told him I'd prefer to NOT show him my weapon or have him looking through my truck and personal belongings. He told me that if I was a law abiding citizen that I had nothing to worry about. I contemplated refusing his request but I allowed my tight schedule to dictate in lieu of being held up longer and allowed him access to my truck. He snooped through my console, found my gun, mentioned to me that his off duty gun is the same as mine, and proceeded to radio in my serial number. Everything came back clear, he asked me to sign my Warning citation and released me. Although this young deputy was very courteous and polite, this is an overt violation of my rights and an unwarranted search. I called the Sheriff in Fort Bend to discuss this traffic stop with him and although he was very polite, he was very ambiguous as to their policies and procedures.

I often wonder what would have happened had I refused his request to enter my truck. Would he have let me go? Would he have called his supervisor? Would they have gone through the trouble of obtaining a warrant? Would all of this bull have even been worth it had I denied him access.

Anyone else had a similar experience?

[rmoraes]

B"H
Since my first CHL (1998) I've been stopped twice. First the HPD officer did not even ask for the gun. Second, th e constable just asked where it was. Both were very nice and professional.

[DrinkRaiderade]

Doesn't the law state that the trooper may disarm you for his "safety?" Not to run a serial number check on the weapon? If he felt that it was unsafe for you to have the weapon on you at the time, he would not have had you hand him the gun. This sounds fishy to me for some reason...and the fact that 2 troopers have run this lately to users on this forum makes me feel like there has been a directive from the top...

[AEA]

What is this bull about running the number of your weapon? This is registration! They have no database.....they are creating one!......

If I am stopped, they will not get the serial number of my weapon without a fight!

[aardwolf]

He told me that if I was a law abiding citizen that I had nothing to worry about.

When a government employee says something like that, the odds are they're dirty and fishing for a bribe.

[The Annoyed Man]

What is this bull about running the number of your weapon? This is registration! They have no database.....they are creating one!......

If I am stopped, they will not get the serial number of my weapon without a fight!

I sympathize, but that's a position with no profit in it at all. What kind of fight? Are you willing to get shot dead by an officer for not surrendering your weapon? With all due respect, that would be far from the smartest thing you could do. Can you just imagine (assuming that you survived the incident) how that would go down before a prosecutor, judge, jury, or the press? You'll be crucified, and bankrupted. Period.

Much, MUCH smarter to put up the fight after the fact by getting some kind of firearms attorney on board and going after the individual offer and his department on a civil rights violation charge. Seek damages large enough to deter any further depredations by that department - and then donate the money to the NRA. Or your church. Or whatever. That way, you get your satisfaction, and you get to go home to your family.

[frazzled]

Good point. I'll just proffer thats what he meant. After all, not all fights are violent.

[Commander Cody]

I don’t think it was such a bad encounter. Sure the LEO made a mistake with the ID of your auto. It is only human to make a mistake. The gun and all ID were returned and only a warning was issued. Not that bad IMHO.

[AEA]

Of course I mean a "Fight" after the fact. Not on the street, but in the courts.

But why should I even have to fight? What am I paying TSRA and NRA for? They should be jumping on this like white on rice! This is obviously a new attempt to create a database of guns and owners of border states to Mexico. Why am I the only one to see this for what it is? REGISTRATION

[The Annoyed Man]

AEA, I'm not arguing with you about what it is, and I apologize for mistaking your intent. And I agree, TSRA should be involved. Since it is a regional issue, I'm not sure that NRA would get involved unless the practice were being applied elsewhere too, making it a national issue; but it would certainly help if they did.

[AEA]

NP.......

I just hope someone from TSRA sees this thread and looks into this.
NRA could be involved if it is discovered that other Border States have begun the same thing.

It is NOT something that is normal or routine or even accepted practice/policy (in Texas). It is something NEW and needs to be addressed for what it is.

If this gets by us I can guarantee you it will spread like wildfire to all the other States regardless if they are Border States or not.

It is a sneaky backdoor way to registration and it makes me madder than xxxx.!

I'm getting pretty sick of the way our rights are being chipped away by "Homeland Security" and all the whiners in the gun grabbing circles. They need a good slap in the face and understand we are not going to put up with this anymore!