What would you have done...?

[TheBlake]

Last Sunday evening at church my keys went missing mysteriously, I am a youth ministry leader so i assume one of the high school kids accidentally ran off with them. When our youth group concluded we looked for the keys for about am hour before i finally had to call my wife to come pick me up. What happened next is the kind of thing i really never imagined to happen to us...

My wife and her sister left to meke the 15 mile drive to the church to get me at about 9:30 PM. About 5 mile into the trip my wife called to let me know that an older (35-45) man was keeping up with them on the road and creeping them out, i told them just to drive safe and ignore him assuming he was like most other guys and just looked over for a glance at a couple of young girls. Right about this time they both started screaming, apparently they had purposely stopped about ten feet short of the white line at a red light and the mysterious man reversed his car to be even with theirs and was staring through the window at them.

Again I told them just to drive safe and he would lay off. They hung up with me and it wasnt two minutes later i got another call, this time he was following 1 foot behind them ( driving about 50 MPH) and weaving in and out of traffic. My wife informed me that they had sped up and were purposely speeding trying to get pulled over (80 in a 50 MPH Zone). I told her to slow down and call the police. A few minutes later another call, this time from her sister, they had made a few U-Turns trying to lose him and he was still following, only now he had pulled next to them a few times swerving at them and had made an attempt to cut them off and stop their vehicle. In the mean time my wife had been dis-connected from the dispatcher with no return phone call.

By this time we had turned all the lights at the church off and the parking lot was empty. My student pastor and i went out to the entrance of the church and waited for the girls to arrive. Now remember, my pistol was locked in my truck and my keys were missing. In my pastor's backseat was his son's baseball gear. The girls finally reached the church and whipping in right behind them was the mysterious man in a brand new 4 door infiniti g35. we both jumped out of the truck yelling at the man.

He stopped the car and rolled down his heavily tinted BACK window, so we could not see his face. My wife and her sister apparently got scared that he was stopped so close to them and took off again, my only thought was to draw his attention from them to me so i smashed the back of his car with a baseball bat... no luck. He took off after them into the church parking lot and followed as they headed back to the main road again. This time i was waiting in the exit drive for him, bat in handonce my wife had passed me by i walked to the middle of the drive as to block his exit, what does he do? Turns his car at me and punches the motor! When he got about ten feet from me i let the bat fly as hard as i could, again thinking if i smashed the crap out of his 50,000 dollar ride he would get out and try to confront me.. nope, i had to dodge the speeding car.

Luckily an off duty officer had seen me standing there bat in hand and turned on his radio and got the 911 distress call, so we watched as he chased down my wife and her sister and escorted them back to the church. During this whole mess i had failed to get the plate number...doh. The officer was a member of our church and recognized us so after a VERY brief description he took off looking for the perp's vehicle.

Now let me pause for a moment here... in hindsight, two options which i should have chose keep playing back through my mind..
1. use the bat to break my own window and retrieve my Taurus PT111...
2. tell the girls to dial 911 again or head to the police station...( about 15 miles the other way)

LUCKILY...
We went to the police station to make a report, and while doing so learned that the man had called and made a false police report saying that he was leaving the late night service, AT OUR CHURCH (p.s. there is no late night service), and he thought that someone might have vandalized his car BC there was damage to it when he came outside. The vehicle, time, and description of damage matched to a t! We are actively pursuing this and he is being charged with a long list including attempted manslaughter.
Ultimately i am glad the four of us ended up being ok and he is caught.

So, there is my "Should have had it on me" story, what do yall think? Anything you would have done differently...?

[tfrazier]

I don't have much advice for you beyond the fact that I would have had mine on me, even at church. But I reckon you are of the same mindset now.

You obtained the next best thing and used it. My hat's off to ya!

BUT more importantly...I want to thank you with all my heart for sharing this story. I'm going to show it to my wife and hopefully it will convince her to get off the dime and finally go get her CHL.

[Purplehood]

I think I would have been calling the Police to meet me at the Church since you knew your wife was on the way and being followed...of course I have no idea what a dispatcher would say about preventing a crime rather than responding.

[Oldgringo]

I think your wife and/or her sister should have called 911 from the onset. I'm sure both had cell phones, didn't they? There was nothing you could do even if you'd had a dozen guns and a jacket full of hand grenades while she was on the road and you were stranded at the church. You should have also been calling 911 as a back up to your wife's calls.

Now comes the BG into the parking lot. Call 911 again with urgent and pertinent info. You did not have a gun; moreover, you did not know how many guns the BG might have been aiming at you while you were beating up his car with your baseball bat.

Wear your gun at all times. Where are the most target rich areas for BG's that you can think of?

Having said all of this, I wasn't there. What would I have done? I dunno'. I do know that I would have been armed.

[bryang]

Thank you for sharing your story. These kind of things are going on more and more and we must be prepared for it when it comes. There are many pastors on this forum and they carry all the time, and not to mention many, many more here attend church and carry.

I am thankful that everyone came out of this okay and I hope they take this guy off the street, for a long time.

Thank you, again, for this is a story the we all should take heed to.

Stay safe, and carry 24/7
-geo

[tfrazier]

...You did not have a gun; moreover, you did not know how many guns the BG might have been aiming at you while you were beating up his car with your baseball bat. ...

See! That's where wisdom comes in and punches me right between the eyes. I wasn't even thinking about that when I complimented you on "finding the next best thing and using it."

I was caught up in imagining what I would have done had I been in your shoes and my wife and daughter being pursued. I didn't think about the fact that BG might have a gun, only that, like you, I would want to do whatever I could to distract him or make him stop, to keep him away from my family.

In doing so I probably wouldn't have been much help to them and might have gotten shot, if he'd had a gun and had decided to stop and retaliate for the bat in the windshield.

Thanks for the wake-up call, OldGringo!

[Aggie_engr]

Oldgringo wrote:
...You did not have a gun; moreover, you did not know how many guns the BG might have been aiming at you while you were beating up his car with your baseball bat. ...

Before I express my opinions, I was not there and do not know the severity of the situation and do not claim to have the right answer.

1.) Doh is right. It's a good thing he tried to make a false 911 call or yall might have never known who this guy was. For as long as he followed your wife's car he had ample time to get her plate number, do a quick internet search and find out where you live, and possibly retaliate for the damage to his vehicle/foiling his plans.

2.) Like OldGringo said, you didn't know if he had any guns, or just what his intentions were. Not to say that I could have done any better or reacted any different than you did but given the events of the situation and looking back on lessons learned, my first move would be to dial 911 to also report the incident, your wife's approximate location/plate number, her destination(church address) and a brief description of the perps vehicle if you had one.

3.) My next move would be to instruct your wife to as soon as she gets to the church, get out and seek shelter in the church with you. As she is in route, enter your vehicle by any means and retrieve your weapon. Wait outside for them to arrive and barricade yourselves inside the church and wait for law enforcement to arrive.

Taking on a deranged person behind the wheel of a vehicle well, you definately have the odds stacked against you. Your wife should not have left again, away from you where you could have done nothing to protect her if he managed to get them to stop or run them off the road. Just my opinions given the events of the situation and glad to hear everyone is okay, besides being shaken.

Keep us updated on what happens to this creep.

[bdickens]

First thing I would have done is not left my defensive sidearm out in the car - but I suppose you know this now.

And I definitely wouldn't have been hitting the lunatic's car whith a baseball bat.

[The Annoyed Man]

It wasn't an ideal situation for you, that's for sure. If it were me, and the hindsight mine, I would made sure my wife had her own CHL and her own gun from now on. My wife really does have her CHL, and she has a Glock 19.

Please understand that what I'm saying next isn't a criticism leveled at either you or your wife. It is a suggestion about what you should do for the future. The hard reality is that, from 15 miles away, there was absolutely nothing you could do to protect your wife, and she had to drive 15 miles, pursued by this terrorist, in order to get to where she thought was a safe place - which turned out wasn't so safe after all. So while I do applaud your willingness to stand up for her in her time of need, armed only with a bat against an unknown threat level, your wife was left dangerously unprotected during the 15 mile ordeal, and that was really where the bigger risk was - on the way to you, not after she got there.

I would urge her in the strongest possible terms to get her CHL, get a gun, learn to shoot it, and begin to develop the mindset she'll need if she ever - God forbid - has to use what she knows. There is much in the Bible to support the idea of it. As someone else said, there are lots of pastors on this board, and most of them carry in the pulpit. I carry in church myself, and I carry when I'm leading worship. I did so tonight. It is given to some to be shepherds, and others to be sheep... ...but it is also given to some to be sheep dogs. And sometimes, it is given to a shepherd to wear both the shepherd and the sheepdog hats. You don't pastor alone. Your wife is part of your pastoral team.

Anyway, I'm not trying to lecture. Your story scared me for you and your wife. Please make sure that she will be able to defend herself from now on in those times when you are not there, for whatever reason, to defend her yourself.

[WarHawk-AVG]

a. Spare key cut at Lowes and a magnetic "hide a key" under lip of bed of truck
I learned the hard way...that $3-5 little addon would have saved me over $80 to get a tow driver to pop the lock on my truck...which would have also allowed you to at least open your truck (which helps in case you accidentally lock your keys in the truck!)

b. Sounds like Infinity guy has used this ploy to get lawsuits and get money to buy the Infinity he is driving..I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to go after the church insurance as well!

c. Remember (from the Buick o truth) when firing thru a car windshield (outside to inside) aim high, the bullet deflects downwards (more for smaller rounds), so aiming at his head/neck would have put the rounds center mass (if you would have aimed center mass the rounds will probably hit him in the gut and not hit a vital and stop him)

d. Thank God they made it to your location before he stopped them

e. Since he put in his report he was leaving the late night service you have him for lying and making a false report!

F. Lawyer up and good luck!

[thorkyl]

Glad all are ok.

I keep an extra ignition key in the truck and a hide-a-key to get in.

Windows are cheap

2 to the grill and 2 to the chest

dead car

Never, and I mean never go naked (clothing optional if you will).

My church placed the 30.06 up.
I told the pastor I would have to go find a different church.
He had the sign removed the next week.

If a store has the 30.06 they do not get my business.
I have a few miss guided friends that tell me not to carry at their house, I don't go to their house and I have told them why.

[age_ranger]

Tense situation.........carry your gun, carry your gun, carry your gun.

Having them stop and get out using the car for cover would have been good if you would have had your pistol. However, I feel you did what you thougth was necessary and it turned out to be the right course of action. There's tons of "what if's" but your actions may have very well saved their lives and the lives of others. My hat's off to you......takes a man with balls of steel to stand in front of an agressor in a vehicle. My advice......learn from this and don't beat yourself up over what you could have or should have done. You did well and I'm sure your family thinks so too.

Church parking lots......great place to snatch and grab. Lots of people expecting to go preach the word of God who go in wearing nice outfits, lots of jewelry and leave their pistols at home or in the car thinking it will "Never hapen to them".

[frazzled]

1. Wow, just wow. Any indication as to why Captain Crazy was going Captain Crazy?

2. Another option for the ladies would have been to steer into into a fire station. She Who Must Be Obeyed was told that by police as a method (call, go for a police station or fire station).

[Oldgringo]

age_ranger wrote:

......takes a man with balls of steel to stand in front of an agressor in a vehicle.

That ain't gonna' help much if the aggressor decides to run you over.

[A-R]

Wow, what a terrifying story. Blake I am so thankful that you and your wife and family are OK.

A few thoughts, if I may. These are merely ideas, thoughts, opinions, suggestions from the safe vantage point of 20/20 hindsight. You and your family are alive and safe. You did well, regardless of any second guessing. You and your family are alive and safe. Keep repeating that to yourself. You did well. Be proud of yourself. Everything here is just constructive criticism from which we can ALL learn.

1. While I agree with the notion of 24/7 carry, let's all pause a moment and think whether true 24/7/365 is really possible? Obviously, it seems in this case Blake could have been carrying (do we assume correct Blake?). But at one time or another we will ALL find ourselves in a situation where we simply cannot carry. You can avoid all the 30.06 signs you want, but at some point your loved one will be in a hospital marked 30.06, or you'll need to pick up your child from a school, or you'll need to run into the post office, the county courthouse, or the polling place to vote.

So, it is probably best that we all think through scenarios like this one to decide what we would do if we found ourself in a use of force situation and our gun was locked in our vehicle. As Blake has already mentioned, he likely should have broken the car window to retrieve the gun. But there are others points that I think bare repeating.

2. Blake, his wife's sister, and the student pastor should have all been calling and talking to/holding the line with 911. Blake's wife should have been DRIVING and doing everything she could to avoid this maniac. If there was a police or fire station between her and the church, she should have gone there. Otherwise, all callers to 911 should've been giving police dispatch the location of the church, description and approximate location of wife's car and maniac's car. Try to lead the maniac to the church, hoping the police will be there to stop him. And in case they were not there in time, Blake should have broken the window to his truck and retrieved his gun.

3. While hitting the car with the bat and standing in front of the oncoming car in hindsight seem like dangerous and illogical things to do (and they are), it is the ultimate testament to BRAVERY to do that which is dangerous or illogical to protect others. Like a dog who distracts a bear so his master can escape or a soldier who falls on a grenade - Blake should be PROUD of the actions he took in a desperate situation that likely occured faster than any of us can fathom. I tip my hat to you, sir.

4. Also a job well done by your wife. Her adrenaline was likely pumping at an all time high and fear could have overcome her. While there are plenty of points where she could have made a different decision, she is alive, she did not panic to the point of wrecking the car, she did not stop and cower in fear. About his wife getting a CHL: Just remember, carrying a defensive firearm is NOT for everyone. It is an awesome responsibility that should not be forced upon those who are not ready and willing.

5. While I GREATLY appreciate your willingness to post the details of this incident on this board for all of us to discuss and learn from, your lawyer (IANAL) likely will or already has told you to stop discussing this case. This is likely good advice (again IANAL). I VERY MUCH want to know the outcome of this situation, but fully understand and expect to wait until the conclusion of this matter within the legal system.

Again, I am so happy you and your loved ones are safe. Thank for sharing this story with us all.