txinvestigator wrote:flintknapper wrote:txinvestigator wrote:Photoman wrote:txinvestigator wrote:Photoman wrote:What is your reasoning for retention with concealed carry?
To keep your gun in the holster and not yanked out by a seat belt, or someone grabbing it in a struggle, or any other of the hundreds of reasons I have actually seen them end up not in the holster.
Thanks for the reply. Any concern about retention devices slowing the draw?
From hand hands up I can unsnap and draw and get 2 shots in the A zone from 7 yards in about 1.8 Seconds, and 3 shots well under 3 seconds from 3 yards. Thats with a shooting timer.
Thats good "to first shot times", I'm curious what your "splits" are? A third round shouldn't add much more than .20-.30 so you would be more than "well under 3". By the way, those times are just about exactly what I do from a shoulder rig. Does that sound slow?
Those are not "to first shot times" they are "to last shot" times.
I was not making a point of comparison to cross-draw, rather I was attempting to show that a simple retention device does not slow one down.
BTW, I am an old leather guy, but there were a couple of guys at the last class with the new Blackhawk Serpa. It is a very fast holster. As soon as BH has one for the Warrier, I am getting one.
TX,
I realize the aggregate time includes: Reaction time, time to draw, time to fire two shots (or three). I should have been more clear in my attempt to compliment you. What I meant to convey was: That either of those times would be
good "to first shot" times for the average person.
I asked about your "splits" in order to determine the time between shots. Subtracting this from your overall time would tell me "time to first shot" and give me a rough idea of your cadence or shooting rhythm.
If you wanted to deduct .15-.25 for reaction time, then we can further narrow down just how fast your draw is. I don't allow deductions of .20 for "rate of assimilation" in these cases because you already know what you're going to do. In fact, if you're like me.. you probably don't have your buzzer set on "random" and can accurately anticipate when its going to go off.
You said you weren't comparing speed between draw styles, O.K. but, you did say this:
"if you have an opponent within arms reach and need to shoot, you simply cannot unless you swing the gun across the front of your body. It is very slow and easy to defeat." This is what I disagree with. Not only is it not slow (if my times are matching yours), it is not anymore "easily defeated" than strong side. The problem here is not where you initiate the draw from. The problem is:
You have a threat at arms length! 
As to your question about how many LEO, IDPA, IPSC shooters carry cross draw, I think you already know the answer and the reasons why.
You know full well that CD is not allowed in IDPA or IPSC or at any of the popular training schools because it is thought to present a safety hazard, not because it is slow or necessarily impractical. So, if you seek to prove your point by citing these groups...then shame on you. In fact, some LEO and Military personnel do carry cross-draw quite effectively.
Training: I'll try to break loose from work for a few days this fall, maybe we can get together and take a critical look at both modes, I know we'll have fun. Oh, and "realistic/dynamic", I wouldn't have it any other way.
Cheers!
Flint.
