Houston robbery video-Would you draw & shoot?

[tfrazier]

Yeah, but since there was no sound, we don't know if the robber might have ordered him to turn around.

[MoJo]

First: I avoid convenience stores especially at night - - - They aren't called "Stop 'n Robs" for nothing.

Second: Unless I am directly threatened or the BG is going to shoot the clerk or other customers they can have the whole store.

Third: It is better to be a live witness than be a dead hero.

Fourth: The only gunfights you win are the ones you avoid. There are always consequence to any deadly force situation regardless of the outcome.

[HighVelocity]

I saw plenty of opportunities to cut government spending in that video.

[lws380]

Remember the guy in Louisville Kentucky that faked a heart attack and then came up and took out both bad guys? Wonder if that would have worked or protected him from being potentially shot?

They had to buzz themselves out, how did they get in? Seemed planned to me with some inside info.

[bryang]

If you look at the second half of the video - the same scene taken from behind the register - you notice that Cowboy Hat has clear fields of fire to all three robbers.

Yes. That and time to pick and choose his targets... if he was armed AND so inclined.

I agree that the cowboy, if he was armed, had a chance to take out the BG with the pistol. This has been a very good thread and I enjoyed everyone's input as to how you would handle a situation like this one. It is a good training video.

Thanks everyone for your wise thoughts it has been educational and very helpful.

-geo

[ClarkLZeuss]

Hmm, now I'm having to rethink my position knowing that the bad guys had to "buzz out" to exit the building. My original thinking behind "shoot em" was that if you shoot one BG, the others will likely flee. But since they would be unable to exit (quickly), they might become very desperate and therefore even more dangerous, like a cornered animal.

[Trinitite]

I saw plenty of opportunities to cut government spending in that video.

[dac1842]

I hate hypothetical questions. The real deal is this. Unless you have been in shoot don't shoot scenario you dont know how you will react. Statistics show, and this was given to us as police officers in many training classes and I saw this again recently, that only 1 in 10 people will actually respond to an emergency situation. Most people will freeze (70%), about 20% will panic and the rest of us will fill up the jails or morgues.
To help ensure you react you must practice how you will react, you must envision how you will react. And you need to be one of ones that goes to the range and practices with your weapon. Nothing is more frightening then when you pull your gun and nothing happens because you forgot to release the safety or the gun malfunctions because of all the dust, lint and dirt in it.
And isnt just us CHL'rs that have those issues, I remember a rookie cop who did not inspect his patrol car often and unfortunately for him followed some very sloppy ,ill prepared officers in the car rotation. One evening we all respond to a burglary of a business in progress and being the Sgt, and a SWAT member I ask the rookie to bring his shotgun. I have my M 16 and 3 others have handguns.( I like to be able to dance to whatever music the crooks want to play) The rookie steps out, rack one into the chamber, well trys to and then exclaims my shotgun is messed up ( not really what was said, but this is a family show) I get his shotgun turn the barrel to the ground and observe a variety of chicken bones, cigarette butts and toothpicks fall out. Seems the officer he followed mistook the shotgun barrell for a trash can.
The moral of this story, practice what you will do, envision what you will do, and keep the bloody gun clean so it can produce blood when called upon to do so.

[tfrazier]

...To help ensure you react you must practice how you will react, you must envision how you will react. ....

Most LEOs may not tell you if you ask, but this is a very important psychological exercise that they are encouraged by good instructors to practise.

Envisioning a scenario, and envisioning how you will respond, trains the mind so that you have a better chance to react properly when your brain reverts to that primitive mode and your typical thought processes and decision making skills are buried in a blitz of firing neurons that only scream DANGER DANGER DANGER as the unthinkable becomes reality.

Why do LEOs not like to admit that they use their imagination to dream up these scenarios and imagine how they will act to stop a threat? Because the general public, and sometimes even their closest family and friends, in their prejudice, will assume they are dreaming and desiring the event that makes said scenario reality.

Nothing could be further from the truth. So LEOs do their mental exercises in secrecy, and reply, "Nothing" when that significant other asks what they are thinking, because to answer honestly would invite repulsion.

It's not all darkness and morbidity, but it's a pretty good share of it.

Anyone who takes on the responsibility of carrying a loaded gun should sharpen the mind for combat as well as the sword.

[HighVelocity]

Be the ball, Danny. nananananananananana

[tfrazier]

Be the ball, Danny. nananananananananana

I knew somebody would come along and spoil my moment of somber reflection!

[BTin]

How do you know if you will freeze?

[tfrazier]

That's part of the reason you envision it...to help ensure you won't freeze.
Of course, a warm jacket will help, too.

[dac1842]

BT, practicing and envisioning what you will do will lessen the lilkihood of you freezing. Unfortuneatley until it happens you dont know. But you have to practice practice and practice. Studies show and this is proven with police shootings you will react the way you have trained to react. But the police dont always get it right. I had one of my deputies many years ago, freeze up solid when we were getting ready to go in after a gunman and he heard the sound of a shotgun racking from within the house. He was a veteran reserve but had not really practiced his response, because he had 5 years in reserves did not feel the training sessions were of any benefit to him. He changed his mind after a come to Jesus meeting with me after we extracted one armed and dangerous felon.

If you find an advanced CHL course somewhere that might help. I dont know if any of them offer shoot dont shoot scenarios or not, but those really help.