Dallas: Council may ban realistic toy guns

[Paladin]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 0650e.html


"Council may ban realistic toy guns
Dallas: Law would forbid sale of highly realistic fake weapons

12:00 AM CDT on Friday, June 16, 2006
By SCOTT FARWELL / The Dallas Morning News


Soon, it may be illegal to sell or play with some toy guns in Dallas.

A proposed ordinance considered by the Dallas City Council on Wednesday would ban businesses from hawking highly realistic fake weapons and kids from playing with them in public.

The proposal is being refined in the city's Public Safety Committee and is expected to be adopted later this month.

The Rev. David L. Ferrell, pastor of Trinity Valley Missionary Baptist Church in West Dallas, said that toy guns being sold in the city – in some cases off the back of ice cream trucks – could easily be confused with real guns. He spoke Wednesday before the City Council.

In the dark, or in a tense moment, a police officer may make a fatal mistake. He said facsimile firearms have been used to commit carjackings and robberies.

"We're just asking our city to enforce something that makes perfect sense and can save the lives of children," said Mr. Ferrell, chairman of a committee of Weed and Seed, a community service group supporting the ordinance. "We understand this is going to be an uphill battle, but we just want to do everything we can to stop the proliferation of violence in our community."

Similar ordinances have been passed in Plano, Carrollton and Highland Park in recent years. Replica weapons are banned in Baltimore; Hartford, Conn.; and Akron, Ohio. Public officials in other cities have expressed concern the laws are vague and difficult to enforce.

David L. Carter, a University of Michigan professor who directed a nationwide study of replica-gun-related shootings in the 1980s, has said the laws are well-intentioned but ineffective.

"In nearly every case we researched [of an officer shooting someone who had a fake gun], I don't think it would have made a difference if there had been an ordinance in place," he said in an earlier interview with The Dallas Morning News.

The main benefit, he said, is to protect police departments from liability.

"I think we probably can restrict the possession in public places," Dallas Police Chief David Kunkle told City Council members this week, "but the best answer could be to prohibit the sale of these kinds of weapons."

The law is also supported by members of the City Council and the Public Safety Committee.

Proponents say the toy guns are frequently sold in southern Dallas, at popular bazaars and convenience stores. A few of the toy weapons collected have laser sights.

Amir Rupani, owner of King Wholesale distributors in Dallas and past chairman of the Asian-American Chamber of Commerce, said the restriction makes sense.

Mr. Rupani said the toy guns he wholesales to stores would never be mistaken for actual firearms.

"They're clear and lightweight plastic," he said. "I'm selling toys. They'd never be confused with real guns.""

[Paladin]

Looks like this may be the first result of Laura Miller's visit with Bloomberg.

[ElGato]

The police Chief called them weapons rather than toys

What will be next " to make the Kids safe"?

[Houston1944]

It's difficult to pass enough laws to prevent some people from being stupid. The problem with the orange tip requirement is how do you know that I did not paint my 1911 orange in order to gain a few seconds advantage over you. Next we will have to regulate the paint colors for pistols. Where does it stop and what have we really accomplished.

[AG-EE]

If they banned kids in public places, they wouldn't have to worry about any kids with toy guns in public places.

[dws1117]

It's difficult to pass enough laws to prevent some people from being stupid.

+1000!

Even when people try to be parents and try to teach thier kids right some kids just don't get it.

"It's for the children" is just another excuse for more government control.

[Paladin]

As I recall, John Dillinger broke out of prision with a fake gun he made out of wood and shoe polish.

Next on the list...they'll ban replica paint kits like NYC

[kw5kw]

i actually agree with that. highly realistic toy guns have caused fatal accidents. i do not agree with outright banning of fake guns from being sold or played with in public places, but i do believe all toy guns should have to have a bright orange tip on them.

It's been all over the news here...
Ice cream vendors are selling the kids guns...(guns have the orange tip)... kids either paint them or cover them with electrical tape to nulify their destinctive toy appearance.

Kids then go out and rob stores with toy guns that look real.

What would you do? I'd think it was real to begin with, and that would become a tragedy... not only for the kids family but for me.

I don't mind Academy selling pellet guns and paintball guns that mimic the real thing, but ice cream vendors?

Russ

[kw5kw]

Well ice cream vendors have a right to sell whatever they want from their own cars as long as it's legal. At the moment selling plastic guns is legal, and I believe it should stay legal.

Yes, you can't pass a law to stop stupidity, but you have to remember these are kids. What are kids doing robbing stores??? That's what the main problem here is.

They will get caught, and they will realize the stupidity of their errors, spend some time in juvy, and hopefully realize you can't do that. Some will probably get shot as well. That's a dang shame, but they asked for it. The best you can do is require by law for the tips to be orange for those kids who don't plan on robbing places with their toy gun.

And as far as painting your 1911 orange to gain an advantage... seriously.... do you think ANYBODY is going to think about that who's entire hobby doesn't revolve around guns and shooting like ours does? That statement was a little over the top.

And, it used to be ok to NOT buckle your child in a seatbelt/chair.
Heck, it used to be ok for me to drive without a seatbelt.

Seatbelt laws came in for our benefit, to save us from ourselves.

My children grew up just fine crawling around in the floorboard of my 74 LTD, no problems. Try that today!

Ok, so you're saying that ice cream vendors selling toy guns is ok, then so be it... but so was ridding around without seatbelts/childseats at one time.

I'm in favor of the ban against ice cream vendors selling toy guns.

[kw5kw]

What is the difference between ice cream vendors selling toy guns and walmart selling toy guns, or internet websites selling toy guns that mail them to your house..... none... You just have to wait a bit longer to get it.

You need to be consistent in your argument. Either we sell toy guns in the US or we don't.

You have to go to a store, which means a definate effort while these ice cream vendors come down the street with their 'bells' on!

It's way tooooooo easy for the children this way, they don't even need a parent to take them to the store.

And, the ice cream vendors are only selling these in 'minority' neighborhoods the vendors outside these neighborhoods won't touch them because of moral conserns.

[age_ranger]

I'm rushing out to sign my kids up for the Mattel toy gun course. After filling out each form in triplicate and fingerprinting them, I'll be submitting their "weapons" for inspection at the local PD. After confirming plastic ammo and 10 round capacities they'll be locked in the armory so they can go sign them out on the weekends. We won't have to worry about losing them since they'll be painted bright orange and have the required safety lanyard attached to a load tested harness on each child.


Seriously, though.....my kids all have airsoft toys and wile they are realistic and exact except for markings, I'm not about to let them out in public with them. I think it comes down to the parents to ensure they educate their kids. If they're old enough to play with those, they're old enough to know the facts and what can happen. I guess if they can't restrict gun owners more, they'll go after the toys.